Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Closed Thread
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
07-25-2014, 01:41 AM   #406
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 9,327
It's not "thread-policing", but IMHO people who disagree with this stuff should be allowed to voice their opinion. Otherwise one would believe we're all fine with it, which isn't the case.
It's indeed up to the staff which opinion is more important and how they see this forum; and yes, I'm done with it. Thanks for your patience.

P.S. Phil, you're of course perfectly entitled to want a FF MILC. It's just extremely unlikely that Pentax would launch a MILC system starting with a niche FF product, so if you're asking Pentax to do it - it won't happen. Sorry.

07-25-2014, 05:47 AM   #407
Pentaxian
cali92rs's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 3,346
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
P.S. Phil, you're of course perfectly entitled to want a FF MILC. It's just extremely unlikely that Pentax would launch a MILC system starting with a niche FF product, so if you're asking Pentax to do it - it won't happen. Sorry.
That's an odd statement...seems like the majority of what Pentax does now is Niche products.
Q - Niche
Theta - Niche
DA 20-40 Niche
DA 560mm Niche
GR Niche

The only one that wasn't niche was the K-3, and even that is debateable now since Canon and Nikon have made it abundantly clear that they don't really care about high end APS-C. People have been waiting for a D400 and 7D mk2 for almost as long as Pentaxians have been waiting for FF. It seems like they may finally introduced at Photokina, but that may be their last pro-style APS-C DSLR. Almost certainly is the case with Nikon from their press releases.
07-25-2014, 06:08 AM   #408
Senior Member




Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 287
Bravo, I'd just add the 645Z - not exactly mainstream either.
07-25-2014, 07:27 AM   #409
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 9,327
QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
That's an odd statement...seems like the majority of what Pentax does now is Niche products.
Q - Niche
Theta - Niche
DA 20-40 Niche
DA 560mm Niche
GR Niche

The only one that wasn't niche was the K-3, and even that is debateable now since Canon and Nikon have made it abundantly clear that they don't really care about high end APS-C. People have been waiting for a D400 and 7D mk2 for almost as long as Pentaxians have been waiting for FF. It seems like they may finally introduced at Photokina, but that may be their last pro-style APS-C DSLR. Almost certainly is the case with Nikon from their press releases.
Nothing odd with it, except if you take a single word out of context and try to fit some "argument" around it, instead of trying to find what it really means to launch a "full frame" system, and what would help making it happen. A FF MILC system is not a Q, nor a Theta, nor a lens (though it will contains several), nor a GR. What they did to make them work can't be done for a FF MILC (nor DSLR); unless they could somehow launch a FF camera with a sensor much smaller than the competition's

Talking about systems, the Q is not niche (FTR the Q7's initial production volume was double the K-3's); and the 645Z is by far the cheapest medium format (the bodies more than the lenses) - trying to make it as less niche as possible.

07-25-2014, 07:47 AM   #410
Pentaxian
cali92rs's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 3,346
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Nothing odd with it, except if you take a single word out of context and try to fit some "argument" around it, instead of trying to find what it really means to launch a "full frame" system, and what would help making it happen. A FF MILC system is not a Q, nor a Theta, nor a lens (though it will contains several), nor a GR. What they did to make them work can't be done for a FF MILC (nor DSLR); unless they could somehow launch a FF camera with a sensor much smaller than the competition's

Talking about systems, the Q is not niche (FTR the Q7's initial production volume was double the K-3's); and the 645Z is by far the cheapest medium format (the bodies more than the lenses) - trying to make it as less niche as possible.
It is not taking anything out of context...the context being that somehow Pentax would not release a FF MILC because it was too niche.
My point was that the whole Pentax system is, by definition, niche. How can it not be when about 1 out of 20 cameras sold is Pentax?

Double a small number is still a small number, making the Q niche. And any camera sold for over 7 times the average person's monthly mortgage is niche..."trying to make it less niche as possible" is really trying to rationalize your weak argument.
07-25-2014, 07:50 AM   #411
Pentaxian
Clavius's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: De Klundert
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,122
QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
That's an odd statement...seems like the majority of what Pentax does now is Niche products.
Q - Niche
Theta - Niche
DA 20-40 Niche
DA 560mm Niche
GR Niche

The only one that wasn't niche was the K-3, and even that is debateable now since Canon and Nikon have made it abundantly clear that they don't really care about high end APS-C. People have been waiting for a D400 and 7D mk2 for almost as long as Pentaxians have been waiting for FF. It seems like they may finally introduced at Photokina, but that may be their last pro-style APS-C DSLR. Almost certainly is the case with Nikon from their press releases.
Awesome point. Don't forget the K-01. Yes, that's discontinued, but it was a niche within a niche even. And the WR in the Pentax bodies isn't mainstream either. Nor is a range of slow but small primes. It seems like being a niche product is a requirement for most products in the Pentax system. Which is perfectly fine, btw. I think I even remember a Pentax representative stating it in one of the many interviews.

Then again, they're too late to fill the FF-MILC niche. And with Fuji rumored to be joing that direction it won't be a niche any longer. So, they're definitely not interested in that.

Maybe a DSLR with the A7s sensor? That's a first for sure.
07-25-2014, 08:40 AM   #412
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: GMT +10
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,832
QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Maybe a DSLR with the A7s sensor? That's a first for sure.
I expect Sony to do that before anyone else does. An A99s or something.
07-25-2014, 09:55 AM   #413
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 9,327
QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
It is not taking anything out of context...the context being that somehow Pentax would not release a FF MILC because it was too niche.
My point was that the whole Pentax system is, by definition, niche. How can it not be when about 1 out of 20 cameras sold is Pentax?

Double a small number is still a small number, making the Q niche. And any camera sold for over 7 times the average person's monthly mortgage is niche..."trying to make it less niche as possible" is really trying to rationalize your weak argument.
You said yourself "The only one that wasn't niche was the K-3" - now you're backpedalling on that? That's how strong your arguments are.

The context is how could Pentax/Ricoh make a "full frame" product line work. Not about making a single camera, not about randomly calling stuff "niche" or not.
And in order to be a viable project (breaking news: they would like to make a profit!), they need to sell in sufficient quantities. We don't know where's the break even point, but we can safely assume it's not trivial to reach it - otherwise we'd have that "full frame" already.

Just a bit of common sense can see that a "full frame" DSLR has the following advantages over a new system MILC, all working to increase the sales:
- a significant existing user base:
- needed to "upgrade" to "full frame" (much easier to keep your own customers than to get other brand's)
- they will buy "full frame" lenses! Canon/Nikon APS-C users are using "full frame" lenses on their cameras, and so will Pentax APS-C users!
- several existing lenses, OEM and third-party - the support is already there
- the DSLR market being much larger than the MILC one, but with only a fraction of the camera makers. Only 3 are still making classic DSLRs. And guess what, Ricoh Imaging/Pentax is growing.

You might write post after post, and reject my arguments and explanations as soon as you read who's writing them - but mark my words, you won't see Ricoh Imaging starting a new system with a "full frame". They might do it with APS-C, gradually building to the same advantages as mentioned above; but I'd say not right now.

And now, I'll quote Mr. Kitazawa for a third time: "First, we are discussing development of FF SLR. We are touching base with a sensor manufacturer and proceeding the process of development towards production."


Last edited by Kunzite; 07-25-2014 at 10:01 AM.
07-25-2014, 10:14 AM   #414
Pentaxian
cali92rs's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 3,346
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
You said yourself "The only one that wasn't niche was the K-3" - now you're backpedalling on that? That's how strong your arguments are.
Way to pull part of a statement to try and twist something to meet your needs.

Maybe you want to quote the whole sentence:
QuoteQuote:
The only one that wasn't niche was the K-3, and even that is debateable now since Canon and Nikon have made it abundantly clear that they don't really care about high end APS-C.
The part of that sentence following the comma means that I think that the K-3 may be considered niche because there are not many high-end APS-C options out there.
You know, the part you strategically left out for some reason.
07-25-2014, 10:33 AM   #415
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 9,327
Look, do you care at all about the most important parts of my posts, or you're just clinging to what's insignificant for the sake of arguing?
07-25-2014, 10:40 AM - 1 Like   #416
Pentaxian
cali92rs's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 3,346
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Look, do you care at all about the most important parts of my posts, or you're just clinging to what's insignificant for the sake of arguing?
I care about the parts where i am being misquoted for the sake of being intellectually dishonest.

Regarding the other parts of your post, believe it or not, I do agree that for the time being FF DSLR has more money making potential than MILC.
But if you go back and read yesterday's post, I never said I thought MILC was the way to go. I just took exception to the fact that people bringing MILC into the conversation were being marginalized by others, saying it was "propaganda".
07-25-2014, 11:07 AM   #417
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 9,327
You were properly quoted and a consistency error (due to haste in making an "argument") pointed out. But now that you're insisting, there's also a logic error in that phrase - you cannot define "niche" by Canikon caring (or not) about it.
If you extract single words and build strawmen around it, you'd better be good at this game; kettle logic won't do.

That subject is closed due to other people's request, please read back and see what's an issue and what's not - then decide for yourself if you crossed the (subjective) line or not, if you care.
07-25-2014, 11:58 AM   #418
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jul 2010
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 573
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
They've put condensers in there so it will go off at least two more times after you remove the battery.
Perfect!
07-25-2014, 11:25 PM   #419
Veteran Member
Big Dave's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 547
QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
I'm one man, not many. And I'm a moderator on another forum, with more than 1700 members for more than 7 years. And I know when things starts to go wild on a forum, because few people think that their opinion must be embraced by everyone. And they keep pushing their ideas over and over, until they annoy other members. That's exactly what is happening here.
It seems like you are the only one being annoyed. This is a case of the kettle calling the pot black. This is suppose to be a discussion about the future Pentax FF. When talking about a possible future camera, it is only reasonable to discuss the features of current models by other manufactures. It just so happens that the A7 series have many of these desirable features which could be included in a FF pentax. You always have the option of leaving.
07-26-2014, 01:38 AM - 1 Like   #420
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 9,327
People already left; good people, with a talent for photography and liking Pentax products. And now you're telling us more Pentaxians should leave, to not hinder somehow the Sony talks? Perhaps you should petition a name change for this forum.
Closed Thread

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
24x36mm, 645z, camera, cameras, dof, dslr, ff, film, focus, format, fov, full-frame, image, iso, lenses, pentax, photographers, photography, pictures, print, quality, range, section, sensitivity, sensor, test, wedding
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fuji will release a Full Frame X-PRO 2 in 2015! jogiba Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 8 04-06-2014 10:24 AM
From Full-Frame Sony... to Pentax... to Full-Frame Canon Mr_Canuck Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 42 01-21-2014 12:50 AM
I have seen the mythical pentax full frame! Here it is! zosxavius Pentax Full Frame 12 09-23-2012 02:41 PM
The full frame Pentax that never was dj_saunter Pentax DSLR Discussion 23 05-06-2011 04:06 AM
Full Frame Vs High Quality Cropped Body - Will Pentax Win/Survive in the Game? RiceHigh Pentax News and Rumors 219 05-18-2009 07:15 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:27 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top