[Rondec]

Meanwhile in reality... My first K-5 with ~25000 actuations has disappeared at the repair center three years ago. It was suffering from mirror flapping syndrome and it should have had its mainboard replaced. I've chased the center for more then a year. All the repair center does is apologize. Bought a second K-5 to have something to shoot with during that time. But it's lens release button fell off. Glued that back myself. Didn't do it very well though, because now I have to pull that button to get it to lock. And my brand new K-3 with even less actuations has been sent off for repair with the same mirror flapping issue about a month ago. I'm releaved and quite surprised that they announced that it will be returned to me next week. If the mirror mechanisms and knobs are that flimsy, I'm just going to assume the shutters are of the exact same quality. What's worse, K5 had mirror flapping, 5 models and 4 years later they still haven't fixed it in the K-3!

The fact that certain companies charge more for their products and their parts doesn't automatically mean the parts are of better quality. All it means is that repairing them is more costly. -A. Botchin

My old banged up (noisy?) Nex 5N, with its ~97000 actuations is still going strong. It feels flimsyer then ever with all the scratches and scuffs from use. And with the the underlying layers of different kinds of shiny plastic starting to show. The back LCD has a little ink stain on it because I dropped it. But it's still there for me, instead of my 'sturdy' 'high quality' Pentax DSLRs. Of course it gets little use now that I have an even noisier A7r. I love the noise; whish there was a firmware update that would make it even louder. So even more people look at me and see what gear I'm shooting with. And if they look irritated, I'll shoot a snap of their ugly mugs as well. A black and white high texture composition of a large collection of those will do so well in my gallery.



Next up? For the ones that find it important: A7s with silent shutter mode. No mirror banging. No mechanical shutter vibrating. In that mode it uses only an electronic shutter. It's a glimpse in the future. Completely solid state cameras that don't clunk and rattle.

You can show me all the figures, article, quotes and facts you like. Less moving parts equals less wear, breakdowns, less vibrations in cameras, and more miniaturisation. Better to do something smart with cheap parts then somethig stupid with expensive ones.

I don't think you can use your personal experience with a K5 and Nex 5n to extrapolate anything. I have had good experiences with the quality of Pentax gear and so have most people. I'm sure you could find Sony users who have had issues with the NEX cameras as well, but I choose to take these things as outliers rather than the rule.

Oh well...

[pinholecam]

I don't think you can use your personal experience with a K5 and Nex 5n to extrapolate anything. I have had good experiences with the quality of Pentax gear and so have most people. I'm sure you could find Sony users who have had issues with the NEX cameras as well, but I choose to take these things as outliers rather than the rule.

Oh well...

I doubt he even has a K5 (even less so two) and he has a K3 after whining here for the past 4yrs?

He's always making things up which is pretty obvious from his claims.

[normhead]

If everyone were to adjust their buying preferences according to the worst experiences of anyone using another product then no one would ever buy anything... sometimes you just have to tough it out....

After the run of bad luck described above, no one would blame anyone for switching brands... at some point you want to believe this couldn't happen again, with another brand, and whether it's logical or not, only matters to Spock.

However that being said, I have two working K-5s with no issues, a K-3 that has had shutter flap once in 14,000 actuations, and I don't consider it a candidate for repair, a K-01. I've sold a K-x and a K20d, am in touch with both owners are both functioning perfectly. My original *ist burned a circuit board and was repaired under extended warranty, and is also still working. My K-100D was sold still working well after 3 years, but I don't know if it's still going.

If you start choosing random people and comparing their experiences, I'm doubting you're going to get a lot of stories like the one posted above, but quite a few like mine.

That's why I can't understand why Pentax doesn't just throw the bad luck cases a free camera. I don't think it would cost them that much. The above story, where the guy has to buy a new camera because they can't repair the old one... that's enough to make one's blood run cold. All you can think is "you rotten penny pinching misers", fair or not.

[Big Dave]

That's very good to hear, but a little surprising if it is fully OK wide-open, and from 55mm onwards:
DA lens on Full Frame: Test Shots thread
specifically:
vjacesslav: SMC PENTAX DA 55-300MM F4-5.8 vs FULL FRAME

I haven't tested the DA 55-300 yet, so I don't know how it dies in the corners on FF. It dose cover the FF at 55 mm and as you zoom out the image circle will increase, masking any flaws at 55m, if any exist. You will need an adapter with aperturs adjustment on the Sony.

---------- Post added 07-18-14 at 10:11 AM ----------

Next up? For the ones that find it important: A7s with silent shutter mode. No mirror banging. No mechanical shutter vibrating. In that mode it uses only an electronic shutter. It's a glimpse in the future. Completely solid state cameras that don't clunk and rattle.

You can show me all the figures, article, quotes and facts you like. Less moving parts equals less wear, breakdowns, less vibrations in cameras, and more miniaturisation. Better to do something smart with cheap parts then somethig stupid with expensive ones.

My Pentax DSLR's are given to my adult children. Everybody has one now and they are all going strong for many years. I use my K5 II and Sony A7 and I haven't had any issues. I guess I am just lucky. By the way Sony parts and accessories aren't cheap.

[mecrox]

These things are all made to a price, surely, and aren't infallible. I've had a K-x DOA, a K5 with failing buttons after 18 months and a DA 16-50mm which has required two warranty repairs. If you want real bullet-proof be prepared to spend $$$ on top end pro gear and $$$ on a professional-level service agreement and even then no promises. These are machines and machines go wrong, but these days very much less than they used to

[philbaum]

I wonder...
"Less Camera Shake: unlike the mirror in a DSLR, the shutter by itself does not produce a lot of vibrations, resulting in less camera shake."
While the world is talking about shutter shake in some mirrorless cameras, some manufacturers even releasing firmware hacks to make it less of an issue. Guess what, cheap shutters and low mass don't work so well.
Who knows what else will happen?

Well, shutter shock affecting the image is a little more complicated than that. IIRC, objects have a "resonant or natural frequency" that relate to size and mass. If the object is above or below that mass/size sweet spot, than the effect on the object is less.

I remember a report that Falk L. did on the K7 showing it was subject to shutter shock somewhere close to 1/100s shutter, but that is just a guess since it was a few years ago. Then recently i read that the D800 had shutter shock and the D810 was designed to reduce that problem. Then i read about another camera that might have the problem, so i've come to the opinion that it is more prevalent than we might suspect. But it only affects a specific shutter value area. And it can be minimized by reducing the shock transferred to the object back in the design stage.

Good points. My next camera will highly likely be a DSLR because of the lens support on Pentax, Nikon and Canon, the three brands which make them. But one looks at the market - Asia + Japan dwarf other regional markets, MILC sales climbing in Asia and Japan and now in Europe, DSLR sales turning down somewhat and anyway dominated by a hegemony, etc. - and it's not hard to think the camera-makers will want to direct their portfolios to what sells and where in the world. So I guess there may be less attention paid to what we want over here in the West which is still more focused on DSLRs than the East. (According to the figures; the reality could be different of course when we come to look back on 2013/14.) Even the USA, which is an economic superpower, takes only about a quarter of the DSLR output and half that of the MILC output worldwide.

The fact that Canikon and Pentax have the good lenses, but are not so interested in MILC frustrates me. But hey, its not a perfect world, and thats the way it is. I suspect that both types of cameras might coexist for some time to come - each with its pros and cons.

I haven't tested the DA 55-300 yet, so I don't know how it dies in the corners on FF. It dose cover the FF at 55 mm and as you zoom out the image circle will increase, masking any flaws at 55m, if any exist. You will need an adapter with aperturs adjustment on the Sony.

---------- Post added 07-18-14 at 10:11 AM ----------



My Pentax DSLR's are given to my adult children. Everybody has one now and they are all going strong for many years. I use my K5 II and Sony A7 and I haven't had any issues. I guess I am just lucky. By the way Sony parts and accessories aren't cheap.

So where do you use the A7 in preference over the K5 II? And what is your most frequently used lens with the A7? I'm still thinking about the A7, but am not sure i would use it that much if i had it. :-(

[Poit]

I was thinking a long time about posting to this thread. Since I consider myself to be a sort of newby who started digital photography 2 years ago with a K-5 I don't feel I've got a lot to contribute to this well informed thread except my feeling of getting annoyed the more I read it. If I take a look at the subject of this sub-forum and and it's threads I would think people are talking about a Full Frame Pentax camera. Even newbies like me know that this camera doesn't exist yet so it's absolutely clear to me that people are speculating. What I really find annoying are statements like "I dont' care about cameras I have no interested in" or "Three Pentax cameras aren't enough to be admitted to the club?" because they don't contribute to the subject neither. Why does one take part in a discussion when your are not interested in it's subject? To show that one for sure is interested, but only in a negative way? This has nothing to do with critique on whatever subject a critique would be justified for, and I guess there may be dozens areas where critique may be useful. But this attitude of "I know better than You, my toys are bigger, more powerful, why do You care about an imaginary toy You could like better" contribute only to one thing: that this thread will be closed very soon like so many before it.

Ralf

And, as if to confirm your point, the pointless battles rage on oblivious to your post

Please do feel free to post your thoughts. They're as valid as everyone else's (newbie or not), and I for one would welcome some more on-topic discussion.

[mee]

How about.. a K1000 sized/look FF digital body? smallish for the mirrorless strange fanatics yet possessing an OVF for us smart, traditional types.. That way we get a FF camera with which neither of us are completely satisfied.

:cP


That camera with a huge lens has to be atrocious to hold... no grip... just a thin brick.

[eyeswideshut]

How about.. a K1000 sized/look FF digital body? smallish for the mirrorless strange fanatics yet possessing an OVF for us smart, traditional types.. That way we get a FF camera with which neither of us are completely satisfied.

:cP


That camera with a huge lens has to be atrocious to hold... no grip... just a thin brick.

Your suggestions has all the virtues of a good compromise - no one is happy. Do take heart though, no camera will ever satisfy everyone. Besides, the atrocity would be ameliorated by the dearth of huge (ff) lenses from Pentax.
Olympus showed the way with the OM-D EM-5 - it has a two part grip / battery holder, so you can take an essentially small camera and make it quite large and comfortable to hold by adding the grip/battery as circumstances require.

[mee]

Modular body would be neat with various grips and control layouts. Especially if the controls could be reversed to the left side for lefties.

But I was thinking something like a Bigma attached to a mirrorless sized body. hehe

But you are correct.. if anything ever is released by Ricoh / Pentax with respect to a FF digi body.. there will be howls and cries aplenty on here from it not being the FF digi body requested.

We all get our opinion on here and that is fine.. but I can't help to be reminded of this old commercial / bumper for cartoon network

You Tube

You Tube

with everyone throwing in their wants for this camera.

[eyeswideshut]

Yep, that's us pretty much - but what are we going to do in the absence of Pentax actually releasing one / several freakin' ff camera(s)!

[philbaum]

Don't think that Pentax Forums is in isolation with regards to mirrorless vice DSLR discussions. It will be ongoing for the next 2 years at least. To quote the luminous landscape review of the 645z

But while the 645Z wins the price war handily at the high end, its erstwhile competitors from below really put the pressure on. The Nikon D800e/810 and Sony A7/r offer exceptional image quality in the $3300 and $2300 range. Want a large heavy DSLR, Nikon's got it. Want a small light mirrorless system camera, Sony's got it.

............

Nick and Michael sit on opposite sides of the fence when it comes EVFs. Michael has been shooting with mirrorless cameras for about two years now, and has lost interest in bulky DSLRs. Nick has never seen an EVF he's ever liked.

So there's no crisis here if Pentax produces no FF at Photokina. There's always Nikon and Canon for traditional DSLRs, and Sony for mirrorless ILCs. Buy whichever you prefer and eventually the market will sort itself out.

[mee]

Yep, that's us pretty much - but what are we going to do in the absence of Pentax actually releasing one / several freakin' ff camera(s)!

haha yes. However, I get the feeling this place will implode if we don't see a K mount digital full frame body within 2 months time. There is so much hullabaloo over it.

On the other hand, perhaps that means an abundance of Pentax gear in the Marketplace in a few months time too.. be it either way. Great for us second hand shoppers!

[Kunzite]

Stock popcorn, lots of it.

[JimmyDranox]

haha yes. However, I get the feeling this place will implode if we don't see a K mount digital full frame body within 2 months time. There is so much hullabaloo over it.

On the other hand, perhaps that means an abundance of Pentax gear in the Marketplace in a few months time too.. be it either way. Great for us second hand shoppers!

Or the prices will go up, if a FF or other interesting camera will come. Or if some new lenses will be launched, with prices comparable to Canon L series. And if we look to the price of the new 1.4 AF converter, this is more likely.

PS. And not only the converter was launched with a very high price. 20-40mm Limited cost 1000, and the 560mm/5.6 was very expensive for this focal and aperture, when it came to the shelves.