Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
05-19-2014, 02:09 PM   #16
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 20,436
There has to be a justification for a FF camera other than allowing us to mount and use 24,000,000 old lenses we can buy on ebay at full coverage. Pentax isn't Nikon, which can afford to (mostly) enable their legacy lenses and still sell plenty of new ones. If the business case for FF is dependent on selling new lenses maybe the reason they haven't released it is they know they won't sell enough new lenses.

I might buy a FF body. I might buy the Three Queens (I might do that anyway). I might even buy a 24~70/2.8, but not a 28~70/4. I wouldn't trade up my entire camera bag to new Pentax FF lenses the same way I would if I switched to Nikon.

But I will keep adding a new DA Limited or DA* from time to time and I might even sell everything legacy I've accumulated the last 15 years and make a rational, useful APSc kit.

For people like me a FF camera - and the lenses - of any brand is just showing off (unless it is just the body I would use to mount all these old lenses I have and can buy on ebay).


Last edited by monochrome; 05-19-2014 at 02:16 PM.
05-19-2014, 02:31 PM   #17
Pentaxian
aleonx3's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Brampton, Ontario
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,888
Would Ricoh/Pentax be concerned with those who are thinking of using old or DA/FA Pentax lenses on the new Sony FF camera as the OP suggested, with no AF support on the lens using the adapter as missed opportunity? I don't think so, as there is no business case for making a FF camera just to allow users to use the old K-mount lenses, period. Technology wise, I think they are getting close (with the release of k-3 and 645Z) but only when the timing and economics (cost hence affecting the price) are right, we should probably see the Pentax FF by then along with the new HD FF lenses.
05-19-2014, 02:33 PM   #18
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 9,339
My point has nothing to do with ebay and flea market; I'm talking about new lenses and yes, the APS-C user base would help a lot by buying those new lenses. Compatibility helps.

The only real new mount alternative means to start with APS-C, build an user base and then release a FF.
05-19-2014, 08:10 PM   #19
New Member




Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 11
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
There has to be a justification for a FF camera other than allowing us to mount and use 24,000,000 old lenses we can buy on ebay at full coverage. Pentax isn't Nikon, which can afford to (mostly) enable their legacy lenses and still sell plenty of new ones. If the business case for FF is dependent on selling new lenses maybe the reason they haven't released it is they know they won't sell enough new lenses.

I might buy a FF body. I might buy the Three Queens (I might do that anyway). I might even buy a 24~70/2.8, but not a 28~70/4. I wouldn't trade up my entire camera bag to new Pentax FF lenses the same way I would if I switched to Nikon.

But I will keep adding a new DA Limited or DA* from time to time and I might even sell everything legacy I've accumulated the last 15 years and make a rational, useful APSc kit.

For people like me a FF camera - and the lenses - of any brand is just showing off (unless it is just the body I would use to mount all these old lenses I have and can buy on ebay).
Simply to ask and answer:

(1) would you like to buy K-3 if K-01 is FF format and the price is $1099~1199? I will definitely not if I were you. I will buy a "FF-format" K-01.
(2) Which could make more money for Pentax company if K-01 were in FF-format rather than in APS-C format? I strongly believe the FF-format K-01 could do.

But now, pentax have lost the opportunity after Sony launched its a7-series. But it still have opportunities if Ricoh/Pentax release a FF-body since the users have being expected it for a long time. A "house" is always more important than a "stuff" in it. People always tend to spend more money on a "house"----camera body than on a "home stuff" ----- lens. As long as the "house" market is large enough, the lens market will be large enough.

I either don't know or can predict a consequence if Ricoh/Pentax decide to give up k-mount lenses as well as their users when the company release a FF camera body. But I could say many people should be very disappointed.

05-19-2014, 09:05 PM   #20
Pentaxian
aleonx3's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Brampton, Ontario
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,888
QuoteOriginally posted by PTCLG Quote
Simply to ask and answer:

(1) would you like to buy K-3 if K-01 is FF format and the price is $1099~1199? I will definitely not if I were you. I will buy a "FF-format" K-01.
(2) Which could make more money for Pentax company if K-01 were in FF-format rather than in APS-C format? I strongly believe the FF-format K-01 could do.

But now, pentax have lost the opportunity after Sony launched its a7-series. But it still have opportunities if Ricoh/Pentax release a FF-body since the users have being expected it for a long time. A "house" is always more important than a "stuff" in it. People always tend to spend more money on a "house"----camera body than on a "home stuff" ----- lens. As long as the "house" market is large enough, the lens market will be large enough.

I either don't know or can predict a consequence if Ricoh/Pentax decide to give up k-mount lenses as well as their users when the company release a FF camera body. But I could say many people should be very disappointed.
I think something is not quite right here: price under 1200 for Full Frame camera in k-01 shell?.... hmm I doubt that price would be sustainable to make any profit. You are referring the camera as a house, as long as it has a big window, people will buy it, right? but I think not. Don't get me wrong, I have the k-01 and I like it too for what it is as cheap price APS-C. But it is missing a viewfinder and focus system for my needs (I do events and stage photography). I like to use the k-01 when I am at leisure however. A k-3 on the other hand would help me a lot (at the moment the k-5IIs food the bill), so a FF k-01 would do nothing for me.
05-19-2014, 09:56 PM   #21
Veteran Member
wullemaha's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 503
QuoteOriginally posted by PTCLG Quote
People always tend to spend more money on a "house"----camera body than on a "home stuff" ----- lens
What? Nope, not if you want good image quality.

The analogy of house vs. "stuff in it" is flawed from my point of view, since from my point of view the camera body can be upgraded every few years, while the lenses are where you get your moneys worth, they will stay with you (hopefully). I will probably not buy/build a new house every few years but take my furniture with me ... so ... no, I don't think that analogy makes sense.
05-19-2014, 10:09 PM   #22
New Member




Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 11
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Yes, so there is a (small) chance that there is no profitable business case for releasing a FF Camera. After all, they're making a profit doing exactly wehat they're doing, so why mess up a good thing?
However, you might not be able to do what you want to, and Your lenses might loss their values, if the "house" doesn't exist or is not good enough. I can predict that the price of old manual k-mount lenses will go up if Ricoh/Pentax releases a FF DSLR body that still supports them, and the company can take back more occupation of its products including the newly designed AUTO/Manual lenses.
05-20-2014, 06:09 AM   #23
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 20,436
QuoteOriginally posted by PTCLG Quote
I can predict that the price of old manual k-mount lenses will go up if Ricoh/Pentax releases a FF DSLR body that still supports them, and the company can take back more occupation of its products including the newly designed AUTO/Manual lenses.
Unless a mountain of old K-mount FF lenses comes out of the closets, driving the prices of them down.

I maintain if there had been a good business case to release a Pentax FF camera we would have had one long ago, ergo there hasn't been a good business case to release a Pentax FF camera. They simply haven't had the modern lenses and infrastructure to support that platform profitably. It might be a very long time before they do have.

05-20-2014, 06:53 AM   #24
Pentaxian
Clavius's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: De Klundert
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,122
QuoteOriginally posted by wullemaha Quote
What? Nope, not if you want good image quality.

The analogy of house vs. "stuff in it" is flawed from my point of view, since from my point of view the camera body can be upgraded every few years, while the lenses are where you get your moneys worth, they will stay with you (hopefully). I will probably not buy/build a new house every few years but take my furniture with me ... so ... no, I don't think that analogy makes sense.
That used to be the case, yes. But nowadays lenses, with their motors and weather seals, have an expiration date too.
05-20-2014, 10:00 AM   #25
Pentaxian
RonHendriks1966's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,714
QuoteOriginally posted by PTCLG Quote
Simply to ask and answer:

(1) would you like to buy K-3 if K-01 is FF format and the price is $1099~1199? I will definitely not if I were you. I will buy a "FF-format" K-01.
(2) Which could make more money for Pentax company if K-01 were in FF-format rather than in APS-C format? I strongly believe the FF-format K-01 could do.
Well we had a discussion about a Full Frame version off the K-01. I'm in for it and I still think that it is possible to make it and sell it. Mabey different from design.


Ow, almost two years ago allready. Time flies.....

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/189624-24-megapixel-full-frame-k-11-coming.html
05-20-2014, 10:02 AM   #26
New Member




Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 11
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by wullemaha Quote
What? Nope, not if you want good image quality.

The analogy of house vs. "stuff in it" is flawed from my point of view, since from my point of view the camera body can be upgraded every few years, while the lenses are where you get your moneys worth, they will stay with you (hopefully). I will probably not buy/build a new house every few years but take my furniture with me ... so ... no, I don't think that analogy makes sense.
I wish you could understand that it is "a lens dwells onto a camera body" but not "a camera body dwells onto a lens".

I would like to say it is a rebuilding of the "houses" for the lenses when a camera body (a house) was changed from film to digital. Unfortunately, the rebuilt houses are not the best ones for the lenses due to some technical issues in the history. This means that we should or must rebuild them again when all technical issues have been solved.

Last edited by PTCLG; 05-20-2014 at 10:12 AM.
05-22-2014, 12:58 PM   #27
Senior Member




Join Date: Aug 2013
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 150
Stop, just stop.. There's no pentax ff, yet your arguing to thngs that doesnt exist. Hehe
05-22-2014, 05:42 PM   #28
Veteran Member
wullemaha's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 503
QuoteOriginally posted by PTCLG Quote
I wish you could understand that it is "a lens dwells onto a camera body" but not "a camera body dwells onto a lens".
Well, I would argue that that highly depends on what lens and what camera you are talking about.
It's the combination that creates the picture, after all.
But I'd rather take a "1500€-lens-on-a-500€-camera-body" combination than a "1500€-camera-body-with-a-500€-lens" combination in most cases.

But that's just my personal opinion/taste, and I am pretty sure there are combinations where that's not valid...

QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
That used to be the case, yes. But nowadays lenses, with their motors and weather seals, have an expiration date too.
True enough. But... thinking about my FA* 85mm F1.4* ... that's probably going to outlast at least my current camera body, and probably the next as well.
06-15-2014, 03:30 PM   #29
Senior Member




Join Date: Sep 2013
Photos: Albums
Posts: 128
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
There has to be a justification for a FF camera other than allowing us to mount and use 24,000,000 old lenses we can buy on ebay at full coverage. Pentax isn't Nikon, which can afford to (mostly) enable their legacy lenses and still sell plenty of new ones. If the business case for FF is dependent on selling new lenses maybe the reason they haven't released it is they know they won't sell enough new lenses.
This is something that I read on the threads over and over, and I can certainly see where you're coming from. But people who buy a new FF K-mount are also going to want new lenses. Everyone will have some older lenses in their kit, of course, but if you pony up, er, let's say 2600 bucks for a new camera, you're going to want at least one new, fully optimized lens. Probably more. And people updating from APSC will be adjusting their kit at either or both ends of their focal length. Furthermore, if the FF exists, the FAs go up in price, and then the new lens is even more tempting.

Oh, and also, the argument that the K Mount is competing with itself (the old lenses) is not exclusive to FF. That argument holds for the APSC too. To follow that logic to its conclusion, making any new camera in the K mount is self destructive.

The K mount is an important asset to Pentax, it makes the cameras more attractive at every market level—beginner to professional. And at every market level, new cameras will sell new lenses—kit lenses to limited edition primes. And in turn, the reverse is also true, if there's a market that's bought the lenses, it will come back for updates to the camera bodies.
06-15-2014, 03:42 PM   #30
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,893
QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
I think something is not quite right here: price under 1200 for Full Frame camera in k-01 shell?.... hmm I doubt that price would be sustainable to make any profit. You are referring the camera as a house, as long as it has a big window, people will buy it, right? but I think not. Don't get me wrong, I have the k-01 and I like it too for what it is as cheap price APS-C. But it is missing a viewfinder and focus system for my needs (I do events and stage photography). I like to use the k-01 when I am at leisure however. A k-3 on the other hand would help me a lot (at the moment the k-5IIs food the bill), so a FF k-01 would do nothing for me.
I doubt we'd see a K-01FF, unless by that he means a A7 clone.

A7 is ~$1500 so I'd expect the same price.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
24x36mm, aps-c, body, camera, ff, full-frame, k-01, lenses, market, opportunity, pentax
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
From Full-Frame Sony... to Pentax... to Full-Frame Canon Mr_Canuck Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 42 01-21-2014 12:50 AM
Full frame or no full frame.... Deedee Pentax K-3 14 10-08-2013 05:39 AM
A decent full frame option for pentax users Belnan Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 14 09-15-2013 06:27 AM
For All You Folks That Want An Affordable Full Frame From Pentax........... BirdDude007 Pentax DSLR Discussion 35 09-20-2012 11:10 PM
Pentax full frame fisheye for the 645D...would you buy one? slackercruster Pentax Medium Format 7 06-19-2012 07:01 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:14 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top