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07-31-2014, 07:10 AM   #406
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
No, I can't speak for anyone else. I shoot one format, APS-C and it just isn't useful for me.
But do you see how it might be useful for someone who shoots more than one format, or especially someone who's considering buying into another format and wants to know how things would change, what pros and cons there could be to do that, what lenses they would need to consider to do what they want, how much they would have to spend to even see any 'gain' in some metric like SNR, etc?

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If you have a K30 with a kit lens and a DA 35, equivalence tells you that you have crappy, slow gear. .
It absolutely does *not* tell you this. That's a misunderstanding/mis-characterization. If I thought that's what it told you I'd be 'against' it too

Two unfortunate mis-characterizations:

1) It doesn't tell me everything about a system, thus it is suspect and should probably not be used at all
2) It's IS meant to tell me everything about a system, and it's conclusions on X combo being 'bad' don't match my experience so it's not useful

So the fallacy in #2 is that it's telling you some whole combo is 'bad' (which you were assuming to some degree in your post there Rondec,) It's not saying that.

(sometimes people even waffle between #1 and #2 in their objections and don't even see how they're opposing (wrong) points )

.

07-31-2014, 07:16 AM   #407
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
But do you see how it might be useful for someone who shoots more than one format, or especially someone who's considering buying into another format and wants to know how things would change, what pros and cons there could be to do that, what lenses they would need to consider to do what they want, how much they would have to spend to even see any 'gain' in some metric like SNR, etc?



It absolutely does *not* tell you this. That's a misunderstanding/mis-characterization. If I thought that's what it told you I'd be 'against' it too

Two unfortunate mis-characterizations:

1) It doesn't tell me everything about a system, thus it is suspect and should probably not be used at all
2) It's IS meant to tell me everything about a system, and it's conclusions on X combo being 'bad' don't match my experience so it's not useful

So the fallacy in #2 is that it's telling you some whole combo is 'bad' (which you were assuming to some degree in your post there Rondec,) It's not saying that.

(sometimes people even waffle between #1 and #2 in their objections and don't even see how they're opposing (wrong) points )

.
But I have had people tell me that my DA *55 lens is over priced and slow compared to an 85mm f2 lens on full frame, that my FA 31 limited is over priced and slow compared to a 50mm f2.8 lens on full frame. Maybe it is just the interactions I have with people on the interwebs, but my impression is that equivalence is used to disparage Pentax gear, in particular, as compared to the faster gear available from the bigger players.

I have no problem with the equations if they are useful to somebody, I am just a little sensitive to it being used to attack the brand I happen to shoot with.
07-31-2014, 07:35 AM   #408
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
But I have had people tell me that my DA *55 lens is over priced and slow compared to an 85mm f2 lens on full frame, that my FA 31 limited is over priced and slow compared to a 50mm f2.8 lens on full frame. Maybe it is just the interactions I have with people on the interwebs, but my impression is that equivalence is used to disparage Pentax gear, in particular, as compared to the faster gear available from the bigger players.

I have no problem with the equations if they are useful to somebody, I am just a little sensitive to it being used to attack the brand I happen to shoot with.
Not sure how the original message was written, but I don't think a comparison of price is an attack.

FA 31 is special because of pixie dust in APSC, it does become a bit more special in FF because there aren't many options that perform as well as the 31. Imo FA lims was never about the price, they are luxury items.

This price comparison did help me make a decision to not buy the DA 50-135. I figured I can sell my APSC camera, add some more money, buy a 70-200/2.8 + FF body and gain "one stop" of dof control. For me it was worth it but I know it might not be the same for everyone.
07-31-2014, 07:36 AM   #409
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
But I have had people tell me that my DA *55 lens is over priced and slow compared to an 85mm f2 lens on full frame, that my FA 31 limited is over priced and slow compared to a 50mm f2.8 lens on full frame. Maybe it is just the interactions I have with people on the interwebs, but my impression is that equivalence is used to disparage Pentax gear, in particular, as compared to the faster gear available from the bigger players.
Well, you have a point. It's being misused a bit in those circumstances, although the person saying that may be making some assumptions but not articulating them, like taking the lens measurements / scores into account (ie the DA 55 isn't any sharper or more corrected than X lens on FF and is slower and more expensive on top of it,) etc.

QuoteQuote:
I have no problem with the equations if they are useful to somebody, I am just a little sensitive to it being used to attack the brand I happen to shoot with.
Fair enough. When doing these comparisons maybe step #1 should be 'erase the brand name from the equipment in the mind'.

07-31-2014, 08:27 AM   #410
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Hell a DA*55 is a overstuffed-wallet more expensive than an FA50 F/1.4. Both are full-frame lenses.

So frickin' what?
07-31-2014, 04:40 PM   #411
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Hell a DA*55 is a overstuffed-wallet more expensive than an FA50 F/1.4. Both are full-frame lenses.

So frickin' what?
As soon as Pentax makes a 36MP FF body, I plan to have a shootout between my $150 FA 50 1.7 and $110 Nikon 50 f/1.8D (on D800.) Folks scoff at those lenses based on price alone - they *must* be bad, because they're cheap, right? - but I know they are powerful, fun little optics that just pine for their 'native' format.

I'm also sad I sold my M 20 f4.

.
07-31-2014, 04:44 PM   #412
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Do we get to see some OEIF portraits?
07-31-2014, 04:59 PM   #413
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
Do we get to see some OEIF portraits?
It will be all I shoot for a month straight. This will be my model:



I'll post the results here. All of them. I'll email you each time so you don't miss any.

After that, my next project - ONHIF. (One Nostril Hair In Focus.)

07-31-2014, 06:12 PM   #414
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LOL
08-01-2014, 03:13 AM   #415
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Hell a DA*55 is a overstuffed-wallet more expensive than an FA50 F/1.4. Both are full-frame lenses.

So frickin' what?
I happened to buy mine four years ago when it wasn't so expensive, but I like it a lot better than the FA 50 I used to own. I just found it a lot more usable wide open than the FA 50.

08-01-2014, 02:20 PM   #416
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
As soon as Pentax makes a 36MP FF body, I plan to have a shootout between my $150 FA 50 1.7 and $110 Nikon 50 f/1.8D (on D800.) Folks scoff at those lenses based on price alone - they *must* be bad, because they're cheap, right? - but I know they are powerful, fun little optics that just pine for their 'native' format.

I'm also sad I sold my M 20 f4.

.
The Nikon 50mm F/1.8 and the 85mm F/1.8 are both excellent values.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/95993939@N05/ Here is a photographer that shoots with a $500 camera and lens combo (50mm F/1.8) and does better than many people with much more expensive gear. Her processing can be a little bit much for my taste, but she has a good eye and plenty of skill with editing tools.
08-03-2014, 06:57 AM   #417
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Please read my firsts comments, then re-watch the video: he's changing well known basic notions like focal length (which, I'll say again, is not supposed to guarantee same angle of view on any format). He's playing with what should not be up to debate then blame the manufacturers for not following; that's not physics and math, is BS.
But I guess "equivalence" fans don't care, as long as it's pro-"equivalence" everything goes.
After thinking about, I don't think that the conclusions are correct.
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