Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
06-30-2014, 06:56 AM   #196
Pentaxian
Clavius's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: De Klundert
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,115
So, having Sony build a K-mount A7 with a Pentax label is bad. But the current scenario where Ricoh buys the sensors from Sony, the mainboard from X, the memory from Y, the processor from Z, lenses from Tokina or Tamron, etc and then slaps on a Pentax lable, is OK?!?

That does not compute.

The heart of the camera, the sensor, is Sony anyway. In that respect they're already selling rebadged Sony gear as it is.

06-30-2014, 06:58 AM   #197
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 8,433
QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Nah, the A7 wouldnt be a flagship. I read here that a lot of people prefer the K-3 in every way. But the A7 rebrand would be FF, so it would give an option to those who now don't have an option of a native K-mount FF. And hey, even the sensors in Pentax cameras are already Sony brand. And isn't the shutter mechanism also made by some other company? And Pentax worked with Tamron on a couple lenses (going both ways). Some people are already using Sony cameras for K-mount glass. They would probably switch back just to get AF and all the automation with their Pentax glass (and Pentax could improve the Menus, interface, add green button..)
Because the lenses are the true investment, camera bodies come and go, especially digital ones
It would be the most expensive K-mount camera.

Making the camera is not an issue for Pentax/Ricoh Imaging, it's no more difficult than making an APS-C camera. What's difficult is to (re)start a "full frame" product line.

Again, there is a huge difference between using non-Pentax components (which is a given, it makes no sense to try and manufacture everything in-house) and rebadging other maker's product. The Pentax K-3, with its Sony sensor, Fujitsu processor, Seiko (?) shutter etc is a genuine Pentax product. The Sony A7 with a hacked K-mount and sold under the Pentax label would be a rebadged Sony hack.
06-30-2014, 07:02 AM   #198
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 23,785
QuoteQuote:
It appears to me you're arguing against a Pentax "full frame" product line
If you'd followed the thread, I was responding to some one who said that Pentax couldn't afford to develop an FF. So my argument was, "If you're not going to do that do this."

So no I'm not, but if Pentax isn't going to develop an FF product line, this is the least they should do. Or at least develop an adapter that lets an A7 camera make full use of the AF lenses capabilities.
06-30-2014, 07:03 AM   #199
Pentaxian
Clavius's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: De Klundert
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,115
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
It would be the most expensive K-mount camera.

Making the camera is not an issue for Pentax/Ricoh Imaging, it's no more difficult than making an APS-C camera. What's difficult is to (re)start a "full frame" product line.

Again, there is a huge difference between using non-Pentax components (which is a given, it makes no sense to try and manufacture everything in-house) and rebadging other maker's product. The Pentax K-3, with its Sony sensor, Fujitsu processor, Seiko (?) shutter etc is a genuine Pentax product. The Sony A7 with a hacked K-mount and sold under the Pentax label would be a rebadged Sony hack.
Not hacked. The mount would be licensed of course. No need to mis out on licensing fee.

06-30-2014, 07:04 AM   #200
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 8,433
QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
So, having Sony build a K-mount A7 with a Pentax label is bad. But the current scenario where Ricoh buys the sensors from Sony, the mainboard from X, the memory from Y, the processor from Z, lenses from Tokina or Tamron, etc and then slaps on a Pentax lable, is OK?!?

That does not compute.
That's because you are missing the most important step from buying components to having a finished product on which you can slap your brand.
Most Pentax lenses by far are designed in house, by the way - they're not bought from "Tokina or Tamron". Let's not use misinformation as "arguments".

---------- Post added 30-06-14 at 05:05 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Not hacked. The mount would be licensed of course. No need to mis out on licensing fee.
Putting a K-mount on a camera not designed for a SLR mount is a hack. Licencing won't change that.
06-30-2014, 07:08 AM   #201
Pentaxian
ChristianRock's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Marietta, GA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 4,050
An A7 with a K-mount, sorry but I think that's a silly idea. It would be a different camera - it would have an empty mirror box just like the K-01. And it would then be mercilessly pounded for being so huge and so inferior to the Sony in terms of ergonomics.
Yeah that's exactly what Pentax/Ricoh needs...

If you want the A7 just get the A7 and put a K adapter on it.
06-30-2014, 07:10 AM   #202
Pentaxian
Clavius's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: De Klundert
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,115
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
That's because you are missing the most important step from buying components to having a finished product on which you can slap your brand.
Ah... You think the actual assembly is done by Pentax employees? That's actually one of the most popular things to outsource. Maybe seconded only by software engineering. I can't name a single company still doing that themselves.


QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Putting a K-mount on a camera not designed for a SLR mount is a hack. Licencing won't change that.
That would make the K-01 a hack too then?
06-30-2014, 07:22 AM   #203
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 8,433
Of course not, the factories in Philippines and Vietnam are just for show. Pentax is not doing any R&D whatsoever, their products are as generic as it gets and you can't actually find any difference, nothing at all, between a K-3 and an APS-C Sony mirrorless.

Happy?

06-30-2014, 07:25 AM   #204
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 23,785
Well anyway, it was good i could amuse you guys for a while, happy to be of service and all that.
06-30-2014, 07:35 AM   #205
Pentaxian
Clavius's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: De Klundert
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,115
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Well anyway, it was good i could amuse you guys for a while, happy to be of service and all that.
I seriously didn't think it was such a strange idea at all. And Pentax themselves don't either. They didn't have any problem with Samsung using their mount. Or with Samsung rebranding K10D's. I still have the D-Xenogon 100mm macro. Which really is just a DFA 100mm with Schneider Kreuznach glass, but cooler.

The other way round, maybe? If Pentax ever introduces an FF camera, they could team with Sony to use the FE mount. That way Pentax could start marketing FE mount lenses. They source the sensor from Sony... Why not the mount too?
06-30-2014, 07:41 AM   #206
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 8,433
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
If you'd followed the thread, I was responding to some one who said that Pentax couldn't afford to develop an FF. So my argument was, "If you're not going to do that do this."

So no I'm not, but if Pentax isn't going to develop an FF product line, this is the least they should do. Or at least develop an adapter that lets an A7 camera make full use of the AF lenses capabilities.
At some point one has to step in and say: "if they can't do at least this, they won't do it". There are no shortcuts, and even if there were - they're not worth pursuing.
For example, Pentax developing an adapter to encourage Pentaxians migrating towards Sony is not a good idea IMHO
06-30-2014, 07:50 AM   #207
Pentaxian
Clavius's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: De Klundert
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,115
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
For example, Pentax developing an adapter to encourage Pentaxians migrating towards Sony is not a good idea IMHO
But doing nothing and waiting for Sony to reverse engineer and market an AF K to FE mount adapter is a good idea then?
06-30-2014, 08:09 AM   #208
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 23,785
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
At some point one has to step in and say: "if they can't do at least this, they won't do it". There are no shortcuts, and even if there were - they're not worth pursuing.
For example, Pentax developing an adapter to encourage Pentaxians migrating towards Sony is not a good idea IMHO
If Pentax doesn't want the FF business, it doesn't mean there aren't many who wish they did. A Pentax branded Sony could sell a lot of FF glass. I'm not sure what the downside would be, especially since if there was a Pentax branded mirror less, Pentax could still do a Pentax DSLSR.

I'm just not seeing the downside, especially for the A7s, I think we can all agree the biggest weakness with APS-c as done by Pentax is there simply is no adequate low light option. And realistically, there never is going to be a Pentax "s" version, even if they do go FF.

A 12 MP low light sensor in an FF body smaller than a K-3, what's not to like? Pentax is never going to do it, Sony already has.
06-30-2014, 09:29 AM   #209
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 8,433
QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
But doing nothing and waiting for Sony to reverse engineer and market an AF K to FE mount adapter is a good idea then?
They're not doing nothing; in fact I suspect they're quite busy (e.g. expanding the production capacity).
Waiting for Sony to reverse engineer and market an AF K to FE mount adapter, well... nobody at Ricoh or Sony is considering this option.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
If Pentax doesn't want the FF business, it doesn't mean there aren't many who wish they did. A Pentax branded Sony could sell a lot of FF glass. I'm not sure what the downside would be, especially since if there was a Pentax branded mirror less, Pentax could still do a Pentax DSLSR.

I'm just not seeing the downside, especially for the A7s, I think we can all agree the biggest weakness with APS-c as done by Pentax is there simply is no adequate low light option. And realistically, there never is going to be a Pentax "s" version, even if they do go FF.

A 12 MP low light sensor in an FF body smaller than a K-3, what's not to like? Pentax is never going to do it, Sony already has.
Exactly what problem are you ("we") trying to solve with this?

If the existence of a K-mount camera would sell a lot of FF glass, then why not making the camera themselves? They certainly are capable of doing that.
There is nothing about Sony that would make people buy more Pentax lenses. I doubt a more expensive and larger (in an awkward way) Sony is more compelling than the original. I doubt it would attract new customers. I doubt people asking for this would actually buy it.
06-30-2014, 09:49 AM   #210
Pentaxian
jsherman999's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,228
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
They're not doing nothing; in fact I suspect they're quite busy (e.g. expanding the production capacity).
Waiting for Sony to reverse engineer and market an AF K to FE mount adapter, well... nobody at Ricoh or Sony is considering this option.


Exactly what problem are you ("we") trying to solve with this?

If the existence of a K-mount camera would sell a lot of FF glass, then why not making the camera themselves? They certainly are capable of doing that.
There is nothing about Sony that would make people buy more Pentax lenses. I doubt a more expensive and larger (in an awkward way) Sony is more compelling than the original. I doubt it would attract new customers. I doubt people asking for this would actually buy it.
I also don't think it gains anything or is even worth the effort to involve Sony so heavily in the body aside from the sensor.

Pentax can make the FF body in just about any form they want, the main problem has always been getting new AF-K lenses spun up with existing design teams and factory lines. It's a resource/capacity/capital problem, mainly centered around the lenses.

The 645z proves they can make a fantastic, modern, state-of-art large-format camera body. Ming Thein has said his 645z CMOS images downsampled to D4-sized 'blows his D4 out of the water'. Coupled with the much faster AF and less image-display lag than the 645D, etc, that 645z is an example of what Pentax can do utilizing a component-integration strategy.

.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
24x36mm, adapter, af, aps-c, bodies, body, cameras, ergonomics, film, frame, full frame camera, full-frame, k-01, lcd, lenses, market, micro four thirds, mirroless camera, mirrorless, pentax, people, ricoh, sensor, shutter, size, struggle, time
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Full Frame NEX is going to be announced in October ! jogiba Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 30 09-15-2013 03:23 PM
Pentax does not care about Full Frame Watson Pentax Full Frame 88 08-19-2013 04:53 AM
Are Any of The 17-50 (or in that range) Lenses Full Frame? reivax Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 12 02-04-2013 07:38 PM
Do you think in the long run, DA lenses are a bad buy? Size of CCDs in the future Capslock118 Pentax DSLR Discussion 28 11-07-2010 06:46 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:56 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top