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06-04-2014, 01:52 PM - 1 Like   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
No, we shouldn't. What exactly does the K-01 do better than the other K-mount cameras? It doesn't have better IQ
At the time of its release, it had the same IQ as the Pentax flagship. And many claim it had better IQ due to weaker AA filter (there are some threads about it, it seems K-01 is slightly sharper). It is also the smallest digital K-mount camera. It fits very well into pockets and bags, much better than DSLRs, simply because it has a brick shape. Now, expecting a mirrorless to have better AF is a bit unrealistic - AF is the main weakness of all mirrorless. Battery life? Is pretty damn good, but of course its not "better" if it uses the same battery (and lots of people like that it uses the same battery).

And yes, the AF speed was increased a lot, significantly with the first firmware update. Seriously, its another camera.

Oh, and 40mm is not the only tiny lens Pentax offers. 21mm, 43mm, 70mm,.. compact lenses is one of the biggest strengths of Pentax. But this is not a K-01 thread, is it? And if you don't like it, thats fine. But it wasn't a failed camera, it wasn't a bad camera, it was just a misunderstood camera. Too yellow.

06-04-2014, 01:56 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Now, expecting a mirrorless to have better AF is a bit unrealistic - AF is the main weakness of all mirrorless. Battery life? Is pretty damn good, but of course its not "better" if it uses the same battery. Lots of people like that it uses the same battery btw.
This used to be true back in the days of CDAF, but now with PDAF pixels on-sensor mirrorless can be pretty close to DSLRs. The current crop can can give the D4s a solid run for its money. Not a slam on the K-01 per se, that technology just didn't exist when it was released.

EVF and LCD-screen based MILC will always have poor battery life since the sensor and image processor must be run continuously, that's just a fact of that design, same reasoning as P+S cameras. However, optical viewfinders like the X-pro or the X100s could theoretically do much better. You just run into the same problem as rangefinders, you need some kind of brightline or something to show people the actual field-of-view that the lens is providing.

Or to throw way back, you could do like the Graflex press cameras and have physical masks matched to the FoV of the lens that you insert into the viewfinder path. Probably too chintzy a solution to get away with nowadays, I can already see the reviews...

Last edited by Paul MaudDib; 06-04-2014 at 07:14 PM.
06-04-2014, 02:00 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
At the time of its release, it had the same IQ as the Pentax flagship. And many claim it had better IQ due to weaker AA filter (there are some threads about it, it seems K-01 is slightly sharper). It is also the smallest digital K-mount camera. It fits very well into pockets and bags, much better than DSLRs, simply because it has a brick shape. Now, expecting a mirrorless to have better AF is a bit unrealistic - AF is the main weakness of all mirrorless. Battery life? Is pretty damn good, but of course its not "better" if it uses the same battery (and lots of people like that it uses the same battery).

And yes, the AF speed was increased a lot, significantly with the first firmware update. Seriously, its another camera.

Oh, and 40mm is not the only tiny lens Pentax offers. 21mm, 43mm, 70mm,.. compact lenses is one of the biggest strengths of Pentax. But this is not a K-01 thread, is it? And if you don't like it, thats fine. But it wasn't a failed camera, it wasn't a bad camera, it was just a misunderstood camera. Too yellow.
It took good pictures.

I found the ergonomics absolutely wretched.

Color was irrelevant. There was a black one.
06-04-2014, 02:20 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul MaudDib Quote
This used to be true back in the days of CDAF, but now with PDAF pixels on-sensor mirrorless can be pretty close to DSLRs. The A6000 can give the D4s a solid run for its money. Not a slam on the K-01 per se, that technology just didn't exist when it was released.

EVF and LCD-screen based MILC will always have poor battery life since the sensor and image processor must be run continuously, that's just a fact of that design, same reasoning as P+S cameras. However, optical viewfinders like the X-pro or the X100s could theoretically do much better. You just run into the same problem as rangefinders, you need some kind of brightline or something to show people the actual field-of-view that the lens is providing.

Or to throw way back, you could do like the Graflex press cameras and have physical masks matched to the FoV of the lens that you insert into the viewfinder path. Probably too chintzy a solution to get away with nowadays, I can already see the reviews...
Sure. Make a K-02, stick on an EVF (there's plenty of space for one), use a sensor with PDAF on it. Keep the shape (maybe move the green button) and increase buffer size. I bet there are a lot of folks that would buy one of these, if they were priced similarly to the K500.

06-05-2014, 08:20 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Sure. Make a K-02, stick on an EVF (there's plenty of space for one), use a sensor with PDAF on it. Keep the shape (maybe move the green button) and increase buffer size. I bet there are a lot of folks that would buy one of these, if they were priced similarly to the K500.
I agree. It needed a tilting rear LCD as well.
06-05-2014, 08:54 AM   #66
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Oh well. A difficulty with exotic suggestions of FF and glory or a new version of the K-01 is this: imagine the reaction to a sales rep going into a store and saying "Great news! We sold you a dud with an experiment called the K-01. Remember the fire sale? What fun! Here is the even more fantastic K-02." The intransigent object called the retail trade is going to say, simply, "Where's the money?". That's the money not only in their tills from a commercially attractive product but also in the commitment and marketing spend that will induce them to give over stock space.

Ricoh have an awful lot to do just to stay in the same place: refresh the K50/K500 lines, refresh the Pentax lens catalogue, keep pushing the 645 system, continue with the Q and waterproof compacts, etc. In addition, the Ricoh brand gets little lurv on this thread but it must be pretty central to Ricoh themselves. At present it is carried by a single camera, the GR, and a specialist one at that.

So it would not be all that surprising if the next Big Thing was all about Ricoh, not Pentax, and perhaps more about Japan and the East rather than Europe and North America.

Of course there might be a Pentax FF DSLR, but it's worth remembering that it isn't all about Pentax anymore.

I know people have been saying that things are unusually quiet, which must mean that great works are in progress in a vast and secret laboratory. But supposing the door to that fabulous facility leads in fact to a quiet patio with an old boy asleep in a deck chair. If awoken he might say he isn't interested in the big time, just in enough to get buy. Wouldn't be the first time ... just getting by is a pretty big job in itself at the moment, Besides, Ricoh haven't been dropping hints (ones picked up online, at least) that they're planning to double or treble their rate of product releases, which is pretty well what they'd have to do if they went big on something new that demanded a whole new system assembled around it.

Last edited by mecrox; 06-05-2014 at 09:21 AM.
06-05-2014, 08:50 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
In addition, the Ricoh brand gets little lurv on this thread but it must be pretty central to Ricoh themselves. At present it is carried by a single camera, the GR, and a specialist one at that.
And the Theta, Mecrox - so specialist and unloved you've forgotten about it!
06-06-2014, 05:20 AM   #68
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And the WG-4.

06-06-2014, 05:35 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
And the WG-4.
Rebadged Pentax though. Clackers is right; thanks and apologies. Perhaps the Ricoh side deserves more??
06-06-2014, 07:59 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
At this point, the FF question is just a "why not"? FF is no longer even a premium product.
Na Horuk makes a strong case here. I've been thinking about the simplicity of this perspective, and it, uh, also occurred to me that Pentax is supporting, hmm, how many APS-C cameras? Well, maybe, given the full frame incursion on the market segment, too many. To avoid competing with itself in what's likely to be a shrinking market segment, Pentax may have to streamline its APS-C offerings. I wonder if we're already seeing some evidence of that. I mean, I dunno. Are we?
06-06-2014, 10:09 PM   #71
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I have a full frame Sony A7 which takes all of my legacy glass, including Pentax. It really breaks down all of the barriers caused by those darn Proprietary lens mounts. I wish that I had a camera like A7, that had the ergonomics of my K5 II. That would be very sweet. Now I can sell my Canon 5D, that I had been using for legacy glass with adapters.
06-07-2014, 09:58 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by Big Dave Quote
I have a full frame Sony A7 which takes all of my legacy glass, including Pentax. It really breaks down all of the barriers caused by those darn Proprietary lens mounts. I wish that I had a camera like A7, that had the ergonomics of my K5 II. That would be very sweet. Now I can sell my Canon 5D, that I had been using for legacy glass with adapters.
Not only ergonomics but Sony should spend more effort to see that the pro or semi-pro features are in the firmware. For example, the Pentax dslr has that one-click HDR/bracketing built into it, where you can program into it, 2 ev steps and 2 to 5 frames with 2 second breaks for tripod use, or no breaks for handheld. And then 1 click on the shutter and they are all taken very quickly. recently i was on the Sony forum on depreview, and the inmates (:-)) were complaining that they couldn't do any more than 1 ev steps for bracketing on their A7 cameras. Hopefully, Sony will correct that with a firmware change.

I've been carrying around my Nex cameras for the past coupla weeks, and then yesterday carried my K3 on a walk around trip in Edmonds after a ferry ride. Reason was i wanted to get some HDR pics. It felt like my K3 had just put on some weight. :-)

I think where Sony got it right, is the light weight of the A7 series. With all the light weight of the mirrorless cams and the smart phones, some consumers are going to questions buying the heavier dslrs.

Last edited by philbaum; 06-07-2014 at 10:03 AM.
06-07-2014, 10:36 AM   #73
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Yeah, what I like about the A7 series is that it brought DSLRs back to sizes more similar to the SLR cameras of old. And the possibilities of adapters, but those could use some more automation Still, Sony is probably the biggest innovator atm (even though they sometimes make odd things or aren't really consistent, don't have a tradition like Pentax does)
06-07-2014, 12:04 PM   #74
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The Pentax K-3 is as small as I want. I would actually like it to be taller so I can get all my fingers on the grip without an vertical grip (which is too big). I like the thickness of the Fuji X-T1 and X-Pro1. Holding out for a FF mirrorless by Fuji or Pentax, or waiting to see if Sony steps forward with better cameras.
06-08-2014, 07:19 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I don't believe in "lower price and higher quality"; and I'm sure Ricoh doesn't either.
I'm with you Kunzite. Here and in other threads there's a little too much concern about the price of this camera. Pentax, as far as I can see, offers amazing value at every market level they're in. An FF camera is going to be 2000+. I'd guess 2200-2500. And I hate to be all tea party about this (not me, really), but if that's not your price range, you're not the market.
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