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What about people who buy something like the GH4 or the OM-D E-M1? Those are expensive, yet have a small sensor size.
@Kunzite: I'm all for Pentax enlarging their team, so they can do more at the same time. If they do it they can do FF. If they can't scale up though (great camera designers/engineers and lens designers are perhaps not so easily available) then it would mean they don't invest as much into APS-C anymore. I find Canon's and Nikon's APS-C offerings quite lacking, surely those brands can do better than that. But they are investing in FF. That helps Pentax doing a great APS-C camera that surpasses their competitors. Also, didn't Hoya fire many engineers etc.? Could Ricoh get them all back...?
You're right, many people might be alienated if Pentax changes the mount just to make them buy new lenses.
I think it depends on what sort of pro we are talking about. The sports market belongs to Canikon, and unless Pentax does A LOT to their AF system and works on fast tele lenses I don't see that changing any time soon. I'd just let Canikon have that segment, even though it's great advertising to have Canikon gear prominently featured on TV and at sports events.
But what about wedding photographers? IINM they like to carry 2 cameras... light gear is certainly an advantage. For those more candid photographers the Pentax shutter sound is great. Fast primes, great too. I don't see much reason why Pentax can't capture that market. Some do want FF, and eventually Pentax could offer that. However the weddings I attended usually had at least one videographer, and each and every time he was using a DSLR. Mirrorless not yet... I don't know why. Perhaps the companies want to stay with one brand so they can share lenses?
What about other types of commercial photography? For architecture Canon has an advantage thanks to tilt + shift lenses, then again Pentax does offer shift functionality with every lens (though more limited). For studios Pentax has the 645z. News gathering/war photography... Pentax cameras are light and robust. However video plays a role there, i.e. a photographer is sent to shoot something, but he also has to come back with video, instead of sending a photographer and a videographer.
How much pro level support do those people get? I thought it's mostly a sports photographer thing. Others are left on their own.
In the pro video market that really focuses on video... I don't think Pentax could or would compete with Arri, it'd be more of an indie thing. Those who use BlackMagic Design cameras, or a GH4, Canon Cx00 or a hacked Canon DSLR, maybe rent a RED, ... Keep in mind that Canon DSLRs are meh for video, until you install a hacked firmware. The hardware in the K-3 is fine. What it needs is a firmware that gives what a videographer wants, and maybe a few tweaks to the camera itself. Until recently BlackMagic Design didn't make cameras at all. RED was established like 10 years ago, and a few years later Peter Jackson was shooting RED cameras. The Digital Bolex that was essentially a kickstarter campaign. Some Chinese company is working on a more high end camera. There's a constant stream of small companies coming out with affordable professional video gear.
In the professional market there is no need for AF. Lots of manual controls and graphs/scopes, and a codec that records as much of the sensor data as possible (or simply clean HDMI out, though having great recording capabilities in camera help). Maybe a built in ND filter (which would be nice to have for a stills photographer too). When they then add SR for video and have decent video quality from the sensor (the K-3 seems fine, and sensors are getting better and better anyway) that's pretty much what is needed.
Basically hand the firmware and all specs and whatever they need to the Magic Lantern guys and let them work their magic.
Leica also rebadged (rather tastefully) Panasonic cameras. I think there wasn't too much of a backlash there. A Sony based Pentax could be, should be more Pentax anyway. Wasn't the MX-1 a rebadge job too? I don't think the A7 would be the best choice anyway, a rebadged D810 would make more sense.
To me the difference between mirrorless and FF is that the mirrorless is nowhere near as established as the FF segment. Few people have bought into a mirrorless system to a degree that switching brands would hurt badly, so which camera (system) they buy depends much more on what the brand offers, making entry easier. How often does a Canon FF photographer switch to Nikon FF or vice versa? I doubt that happens often, even when the grass is much greener on the other side. However those ADDING something that is entirely different, like mFT, that does seem to happen. Eventually they may give up FF, or they won't, it doesn't really matter.
Ok, so I got the details wrong on Pentax not caring for the pro market and the result. But can you agree with me that Pentax went from outselling their competitors in ridiculous numbers to "do they still make cameras?", while Canon and Nikon, which used to be not so important, got to dominate the market? I can't help but think Pentax screwed up. Yes, other things come into play too. But focusing on enthusiasts, when enthusiasts wanted to have what they saw professional users use didn't help.
I do want Pentax products. I don't like how a Canon or Nikon feels. How they are used. Sony is hit and miss... I quite like their DSLTs, I don't get the hype around the A7 (my first impressions trying it in a shop were very bad). I love the way a Pentax feels, and I love the way a Fuji feels even more. Olympus and Panasonic are hit and miss too. Rebadging though could be a quite and easy way to give users a FF camera, while they concentrate on making their APS-C cameras more awesome. :P At the same time they can expand their lens line up so that at some point they can introduce a real FF Pentax.
Oh and personally I prefer to use a DSLR. :P
@eyeswideshut: IMHO Pentax made a mistake back then. They were in the dominant position. Canon had to fight their way up, but Pentax was already there.
Thanks to Ricoh I do think Pentax has, just like Canon in the past, the long time security to establish themselves. They do not have to be too profitable. Also the professional video market is more frickle minded it seems. Gear is rented for example, so from project to project it can change. ---------- Post added 02-07-14 at 13:56 ---------- Professional video is to a certain degree at least a matter of getting the software right. I reckon they could turn the K-3 into a very capable hybrid camera if they invested a bit in the software, in the right developers.
I hope when they come out with a mirrorless lens mount, they will base it on the K mount. As closely as possible, so that a mechanical adapter can give full K mount lens compatibility.
PDAF can be on the sensor these days.
And if all you care for is the low light capabilities, keep in mind that sensors keep getting better. A 12 MP APS-C camera with the latest sensor tech could do pretty nice things, let alone what can be done in a few years. Yes, FF will (probably?) be always a step ahead. But if what you want is current FF performance, then a few years down the road that is what APS-C will offer.
Pentax could also develop something like the Metabones SpeedBooster, giving you even more of what FF has to offer. FF lenses would appear as FF lenses on the APS-C camera, with the same DoF it would have on a FF camera. It would gather more light, so the low light advantages of FF would be lessened too. Mostly it'd be the viewfinder size and the resolution that would not be as good as with some FF cameras. The advantage is that you have FF and APS-C at the same time. Do you want a crop or not?
When you see someone using a product in a movie these days, that is because the company making the product has paid the producers of the movie to show the product.
Pentax could easily do that, if they had the marketing budget. Heck, they could make a "pro" studio photographer in a movie use a Q with enough budget (as long as they can find a director that doesn't think it would ruin the movie for being not believable enough).
The image of a brand can of course change. That's what brands do, what they put effort into. Mercedes was the rich old folks car brand. Look at their cars now. They are shooting for young professionals, and when I think Mercedes these days I don't think grandpa anymore.
Telling something to Pentax... good luck. I've reported a K-5/K-3 bug on these forums (for lack of contact information), and no one cared. Or what about the wishes for enabling the option to use SR on the K-3? Just giving a second shake reduction option, that is more or less already implemented in the camera. Pentax didn't bother at all.
@Clavius: But not everyone wants FF. The price may put off some, but there are more reasons not to want FF. But yes, I agree. It could be problematic for Pentax. Then again, even when they have a FF body they still need the lenses...
I think Pentax have a professional DSLR. It's called the K-3. What is missing is video... that's sub par, when it should be exceeding competitors (and with some software tweaks I think it could). Then they need to market it. Get Pentax cameras into the hands of photographers, especially those who teach workshops, who give talks, speak on podcasts, review gear, ... the product itself is IMHO convincing. Photographers need to know Pentax is still around, and that they offer the best APS-C camera there is, especially considering weight and size. Pentax cameras also need to appear in shops. Looking at specs, Pentax does not shine. It's average perhaps. But touching the camera makes the difference.
It's the same with Fuji. They are pretty, the specs are so-so. But I've spent an hour or two trying several Fuji cameras, and took hundreds of photos at the same location in the process. Just because I enjoyed using the camera. I want to press the shutter button. Look through the viewfinder. Touch it.
Last edited by kadajawi; 07-02-2014 at 05:14 AM.
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