New FF consortium.....

RonHendriks1966 · 07-17-2014, 05:35 AM

So if one off the future directions is to go with a Full Frame sensor camera and one other future is to go mirrorless........

Currently the FF market is for:
- Nikon and Canon both have a large section of camera's with a full range off lenses.
- Sony is going with the Nex.
- Leica is going with their path.

- Samsung is probably to big as a company to work with others. Looks like Samsung is not interested in FF.

So Ricoh could go solo, working with K-mount (wich almost al of us want). But why not build a new consortium for FF.

Together with Panasonic, Olympus, Fuji (and who knows also Kodak), Ricoh could build to a new platform around a new mirrorless Full Frame camera line. Each company brings at least one camera body and together they can build a lensline. Of course providing an adapter for K-mount.

Maybe even build around an electronic M-mount if Leica would join........(of course with auto focus)

A consortium like the one around micro 4/3th.

So what do you think about this?

Last edited by RonHendriks1966; 07-17-2014 at 06:22 AM.

jogiba · 07-17-2014, 05:40 AM

Quote:

and who knows also Kodak

Kodak is dead and buried.

RonHendriks1966 · 07-17-2014, 05:56 AM

Originally posted by jogiba

Kodak is dead and buried.

The new Chinese owner that also joint in on the mcro 4/3th consortium.

Pablom · 07-17-2014, 06:02 AM

You repeatedly write "off" but you mean "of".

Not trying to be a smart ass and sorry to go off topic but it drives me crazy.

MikeW · 07-17-2014, 06:07 AM - **6 Likes**

Originally posted by Pablom

You repeatedly write "off" but you mean "of".

Not trying to be a smart ass and sorry to go off topic but it drives me crazy.

Is your Dutch as good as his English?

RonHendriks1966 · 07-17-2014, 06:29 AM

Well I do make some errors in writing, but it is also about the topic..........

Clavius · 07-17-2014, 06:32 AM

...Back to the topic.

It works for M4/3. And if this is what it takes for Pentax to safely market their FF, then they should go for it! The biggest advantage I see here is that with their combined efforts a lens line would be complete in a much shorter period.

RonHendriks1966 · 07-17-2014, 06:35 AM

It is impressing, the number of company's involved with micro 4/3th.

http://www.four-thirds.org/en/contact/group.html

**jatrax** · 07-17-2014, 06:37 AM

Which almost all of us want????

Oh, wait this is the FF forum. Sorry, never mind. ...........

VoiceOfReason · 07-17-2014, 06:41 AM

The only problem I see what that is right now Pentax/Ricoh does have a line of FF lenses with the FA line, and some of the DA lenses are also FF compatible, so unless a consortium adopted the K mount then I don't think Ricoh would go for it.

ruggiex · 07-17-2014, 06:56 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

It is impressing, the number of company's involved with micro 4/3th.

http://www.four-thirds.org/en/contact/group.html

You can have a consortium but... how many on that list actually put any real effort into m43? Most seems to be there just in case m43 totally takes off.

mecrox · 07-17-2014, 06:56 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

So if one off the future directions is to go with a Full Frame sensor camera and one other future is to go mirrorless........

Currently the FF market is for:
- Nikon and Canon both have a large section of camera's with a full range off lenses.
- Sony is going with the Nex.
- Leica is going with their path.

- Samsung is probably to big as a company to work with others. Looks like Samsung is not interested in FF.

So Ricoh could go solo, working with K-mount (wich almost al of us want). But why not build a new consortium for FF.

Together with Panasonic, Olympus, Fuji (and who knows also Kodak), Ricoh could build to a new platform around a new mirrorless Full Frame camera line. Each company brings at least one camera body and together they can build a lensline. Of course providing an adapter for K-mount.

Maybe even build around an electronic M-mount if Leica would join........(of course with auto focus)

A consortium like the one around micro 4/3th.

So what do you think about this?

I could see a consortium making sense if it meant developing an entirely new kind of camera with a new format, a new kind of sensor and an all-new mount. After all, that's what M43 mostly did. But FF is already out there, dominated by two marketing behemoths and well established as a format. The "FF consortium" would have nothing in common beyond a lens mount and little to differentiate them from Canon, Nikon and Sony - so what could they really sell that their competitors didn't have already? Not much, imho. What a consortium needs is a platform unique to itself. If you want the platform, you have to join the consortium. At a minimum that would be sensor + mount of a kind which competitors cannot obtain elsewhere. It's perfectly possible to see circumstances in which such a platform and consortium might make a lot of sense but "just another FF line" doesn't strike me as one of them.

RonHendriks1966 · 07-17-2014, 07:14 AM

Originally posted by mecrox

I could see a consortium making sense if it meant developing an entirely new kind of camera with a new format, a new kind of sensor and an all-new mount. After all, that's what M43 mostly did. But FF is already out there, dominated by two marketing behemoths and well established as a format. The "FF consortium" would have nothing in common beyond a lens mount and little to differentiate them from Canon, Nikon and Sony - so what could they really sell that their competitors didn't have already? Not much, imho. What a consortium needs is a platform unique to itself. If you want the platform, you have to join the consortium. At a minimum that would be sensor + mount of a kind which competitors cannot obtain elsewhere. It's perfectly possible to see circumstances in which such a platform and consortium might make a lot of sense but "just another FF line" doesn't strike me as one of them.

Well the consortium would make it possible for all players to enter the FF market. One wich all off them individual would have a hart time to keep alive. When all make a camerabody and 4 lenses you start of with 16 lenses and 4 body's. For Canon and Nikon the FF market is DSLR with mirror and this would be mirrorless. So Sony is the competition to this one. All 4 company's do have a lot of knowledge at making camera's and lenses.

Kunzite · 07-17-2014, 07:21 AM

But why would they work hard to "make it possible for all players to enter the FF market"? More competition means less profit

I'd say Ricoh Imaging should rather be happy that they have a FF mount and some FF lenses, and the competition not yet on the FF market don't have those.

mecrox · 07-17-2014, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Well the consortium would make it possible for all players to enter the FF market. One wich all off them individual would have a hart time to keep alive. When all make a camerabody and 4 lenses you start of with 16 lenses and 4 body's. For Canon and Nikon the FF market is DSLR with mirror and this would be mirrorless. So Sony is the competition to this one. All 4 company's do have a lot of knowledge at making camera's and lenses.

Well, they would have to be a little careful Sony didn't suddenly find reasons not to supply them with sensors

I think one thing a consortium could do which might make a lot of sense would be to develop an entirely new operating system for cameras. That much be extremely expensive to do. Each company could differentiate itself by building its own layer on top of the core stack and the standard APIs. Software is one of the things that the Japanese camera industry has never really got right, imho. Look at how they handled the arrival of wifi, something that on other platforms is taken to be a no-brainer inclusion. And, I suppose one could argue, the more powerful and adaptable the software in cameras, the more resistant the industry could be to creeping colonization and patent ransom by the mobile crowd.

07-17-2014, 05:35 AM	#1
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	New FF consortium..... So if one off the future directions is to go with a Full Frame sensor camera and one other future is to go mirrorless........ Currently the FF market is for: - Nikon and Canon both have a large section of camera's with a full range off lenses. - Sony is going with the Nex. - Leica is going with their path. - Samsung is probably to big as a company to work with others. Looks like Samsung is not interested in FF. So Ricoh could go solo, working with K-mount (wich almost al of us want). But why not build a new consortium for FF. Together with Panasonic, Olympus, Fuji (and who knows also Kodak), Ricoh could build to a new platform around a new mirrorless Full Frame camera line. Each company brings at least one camera body and together they can build a lensline. Of course providing an adapter for K-mount. Maybe even build around an electronic M-mount if Leica would join........(of course with auto focus) A consortium like the one around micro 4/3th. So what do you think about this? Last edited by RonHendriks1966; 07-17-2014 at 06:22 AM.

07-17-2014, 05:56 AM	#3
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675 Original Poster	Originally posted by jogiba Kodak is dead and buried. The new Chinese owner that also joint in on the mcro 4/3th consortium. Last edited by RonHendriks1966; 07-17-2014 at 06:21 AM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
K2D - new FF from Pentax.	Petrus_One	Pentax Full Frame	65	04-27-2016 06:40 AM
Another new nikon FF?	PBandJ	Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Other Camera Brands	194	11-08-2013 05:25 PM
New FF 'LX-D' rumours...	Cambo	Pentax News and Rumors	110	10-31-2013 08:25 PM
New Rumor or FF is coming?	yasik	Pentax DSLR Discussion	2	12-20-2012 05:00 AM
Re-cycling another Pentax FF rumour/FF rumor from A German photography magazine	rawr	Pentax Full Frame	73	09-19-2012 01:12 PM

07-17-2014, 05:40 AM	#2
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Quote: and who knows also Kodak Kodak is dead and buried.

07-17-2014, 06:02 AM	#4
Pablom Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Usa Posts: 1,940	You repeatedly write "off" but you mean "of". Not trying to be a smart ass and sorry to go off topic but it drives me crazy.

07-17-2014, 06:07 AM - 6 Likes	#5
MikeW Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Indiana Photos: Gallery Posts: 437	Originally posted by Pablom You repeatedly write "off" but you mean "of". Not trying to be a smart ass and sorry to go off topic but it drives me crazy. Is your Dutch as good as his English?

07-17-2014, 06:29 AM	#6
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675 Original Poster	Well I do make some errors in writing, but it is also about the topic..........

07-17-2014, 06:32 AM	#7
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	...Back to the topic. It works for M4/3. And if this is what it takes for Pentax to safely market their FF, then they should go for it! The biggest advantage I see here is that with their combined efforts a lens line would be complete in a much shorter period.

07-17-2014, 06:35 AM	#8
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675 Original Poster	It is impressing, the number of company's involved with micro 4/3th. http://www.four-thirds.org/en/contact/group.html

07-17-2014, 06:37 AM	#9
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Which almost all of us want???? Oh, wait this is the FF forum. Sorry, never mind. ...........

07-17-2014, 06:41 AM	#10
VoiceOfReason Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Mishawaka IN area Photos: Albums Posts: 6,124	The only problem I see what that is right now Pentax/Ricoh does have a line of FF lenses with the FA line, and some of the DA lenses are also FF compatible, so unless a consortium adopted the K mount then I don't think Ricoh would go for it.

07-17-2014, 06:56 AM	#11
ruggiex Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: East Bay Area Photos: Gallery Posts: 811	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 It is impressing, the number of company's involved with micro 4/3th. http://www.four-thirds.org/en/contact/group.html You can have a consortium but... how many on that list actually put any real effort into m43? Most seems to be there just in case m43 totally takes off.

07-17-2014, 06:56 AM	#12
mecrox Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxford, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,375	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 So if one off the future directions is to go with a Full Frame sensor camera and one other future is to go mirrorless........ Currently the FF market is for: - Nikon and Canon both have a large section of camera's with a full range off lenses. - Sony is going with the Nex. - Leica is going with their path. - Samsung is probably to big as a company to work with others. Looks like Samsung is not interested in FF. So Ricoh could go solo, working with K-mount (wich almost al of us want). But why not build a new consortium for FF. Together with Panasonic, Olympus, Fuji (and who knows also Kodak), Ricoh could build to a new platform around a new mirrorless Full Frame camera line. Each company brings at least one camera body and together they can build a lensline. Of course providing an adapter for K-mount. Maybe even build around an electronic M-mount if Leica would join........(of course with auto focus) A consortium like the one around micro 4/3th. So what do you think about this? I could see a consortium making sense if it meant developing an entirely new kind of camera with a new format, a new kind of sensor and an all-new mount. After all, that's what M43 mostly did. But FF is already out there, dominated by two marketing behemoths and well established as a format. The "FF consortium" would have nothing in common beyond a lens mount and little to differentiate them from Canon, Nikon and Sony - so what could they really sell that their competitors didn't have already? Not much, imho. What a consortium needs is a platform unique to itself. If you want the platform, you have to join the consortium. At a minimum that would be sensor + mount of a kind which competitors cannot obtain elsewhere. It's perfectly possible to see circumstances in which such a platform and consortium might make a lot of sense but "just another FF line" doesn't strike me as one of them.

07-17-2014, 07:14 AM	#13
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675 Original Poster	Originally posted by mecrox I could see a consortium making sense if it meant developing an entirely new kind of camera with a new format, a new kind of sensor and an all-new mount. After all, that's what M43 mostly did. But FF is already out there, dominated by two marketing behemoths and well established as a format. The "FF consortium" would have nothing in common beyond a lens mount and little to differentiate them from Canon, Nikon and Sony - so what could they really sell that their competitors didn't have already? Not much, imho. What a consortium needs is a platform unique to itself. If you want the platform, you have to join the consortium. At a minimum that would be sensor + mount of a kind which competitors cannot obtain elsewhere. It's perfectly possible to see circumstances in which such a platform and consortium might make a lot of sense but "just another FF line" doesn't strike me as one of them. Well the consortium would make it possible for all players to enter the FF market. One wich all off them individual would have a hart time to keep alive. When all make a camerabody and 4 lenses you start of with 16 lenses and 4 body's. For Canon and Nikon the FF market is DSLR with mirror and this would be mirrorless. So Sony is the competition to this one. All 4 company's do have a lot of knowledge at making camera's and lenses.

07-17-2014, 07:21 AM	#14
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	But why would they work hard to "make it possible for all players to enter the FF market"? More competition means less profit I'd say Ricoh Imaging should rather be happy that they have a FF mount and some FF lenses, and the competition not yet on the FF market don't have those.

07-17-2014, 07:37 AM	#15
mecrox Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxford, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,375	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Well the consortium would make it possible for all players to enter the FF market. One wich all off them individual would have a hart time to keep alive. When all make a camerabody and 4 lenses you start of with 16 lenses and 4 body's. For Canon and Nikon the FF market is DSLR with mirror and this would be mirrorless. So Sony is the competition to this one. All 4 company's do have a lot of knowledge at making camera's and lenses. Well, they would have to be a little careful Sony didn't suddenly find reasons not to supply them with sensors I think one thing a consortium could do which might make a lot of sense would be to develop an entirely new operating system for cameras. That much be extremely expensive to do. Each company could differentiate itself by building its own layer on top of the core stack and the standard APIs. Software is one of the things that the Japanese camera industry has never really got right, imho. Look at how they handled the arrival of wifi, something that on other platforms is taken to be a no-brainer inclusion. And, I suppose one could argue, the more powerful and adaptable the software in cameras, the more resistant the industry could be to creeping colonization and patent ransom by the mobile crowd.