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08-18-2014, 08:27 AM   #226
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I think the price of the camera will be in line with Nikon/Canon.

The K-5 was priced higher than the D7000 for the first few months (at least) but since the K-5, Pentax has been selling cameras at lower prices and lenses at higher prices.

I expect that whatever camera is announced at Photokina (assuming any are announced), it will be a decent value.

08-18-2014, 10:28 AM   #227
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
I think the price of the camera will be in line with Nikon/Canon.

The K-5 was priced higher than the D7000 for the first few months (at least) but since the K-5, Pentax has been selling cameras at lower prices and lenses at higher prices.

I expect that whatever camera is announced at Photokina (assuming any are announced), it will be a decent value.
K3 is more expensive than D7100 and doesn't have really more usefull features past a little more FPS.

---------- Post added 08-18-14 at 07:32 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
This whole conversation is one about what is "good enough" for the average user. APS-C with a kit lens a couple of primes? A full frame camera with f4 zooms? A full frame camera with 36 megapixels and f2.8 zooms? It is the sort of thing that no one can answer for anyone else.

It does feel like the market (Sony, Canon, Nikon) wants to shift photographers to full frame, even if they are relatively satisfied with crop formats. They can do this by making sure best lenses are full frame compatible and limiting glass for crop formats and by limiting features on crop format cameras. Eventually the market will split, probably abandoning upper end APS-C and reserving smaller sensors for low end, entry level cameras -- probably a lot of them being mirrorless. But that future is still a little ways off.
of course all manufacturer should push FF... Except thoses like Pentax, Fuji...

For Canikon, FF is the upgrade path. For Fuji there no need yet, they just want you to buy into the system and get lenses when theses are ready.

For Pentax, the APSC echosystem is already mature, with many people invested and a few new users. The interrest for FF for Pentax is to make people upgrade to FF regardless they really need it or not. The idea is to create the need. The good thing for Pentax is Canikon already made the effort.
08-18-2014, 10:53 AM   #228
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
K3 is more expensive than D7100 and doesn't have really more usefull features past a little more FPS.
I consider the in body stabilization and the anti-moire function 'useful' features, worth $100.


Last edited by ElJamoquio; 08-18-2014 at 10:58 AM.
08-18-2014, 11:36 AM   #229
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The significantly larger buffer might also be useful at times.

08-18-2014, 12:57 PM   #230
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote

I have been told in many threads that a mirrorless full frame camera with a different mount, but would allow use of K mount lenses with an adapter is the answer. SLRs are a shrinking market.
That may very well be a viable option, but it would have been a better maneuver before the A7 line appeared. Now it's possible even Fuji may beat Pentax to that space.

QuoteQuote:
My fear would be that Ricoh would release a camera that matches up fairly poorly against Nikon/Canon options, be priced a little too high, get poor reviews and would then be a failure.
I think we have a few data points that suggest that ^^ scenario unlikely: K5, K3, K50, etc. All stack up very nicely to their Canon/Nikon tier-peers. No reason to think Pentax would forget how to do it one tier up.
08-18-2014, 12:59 PM   #231
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The significantly larger buffer might also be useful at times.
True, thanks.
08-18-2014, 01:17 PM   #232
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
I consider the in body stabilization and the anti-moire function 'useful' features, worth $100.

I never used the anti moire function of the K3 and never found any moire in my shoots. When it happen, you can remove it in PP with DxO for example, just push a slider. For me this is a nice marketing move and sure helped the camera of year thing but for practical purpose this is useless. Well maybe not if your are into fashion, but that's it.

In body stabilization is really great, I love it for my small Pentax lenses . Not sure it is really key on modern lenses if you are not size/weight bounded. Optical stabilization seems to work little better, for tele it is really better.

On the opposite the D7100 AF is far better for actions/sports.

In the end I would call it a draw even through I love my Pentax and doesn't want a D7100.
08-18-2014, 01:27 PM   #233
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I am a long time Pentax shooter.. got into wedding and wanted 35mm f1.4 and 85mm on 2 fullframe..nothing on Pentax side that offer that..So I decide to go to Nikon..and have never regret one bit..

08-18-2014, 01:39 PM - 1 Like   #234
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QuoteOriginally posted by pdo Quote
I am a long time Pentax shooter.. got into wedding and wanted 35mm f1.4 and 85mm on 2 fullframe..nothing on Pentax side that offer that..So I decide to go to Nikon..and have never regret one bit..
Then you made the good choice ! I mean even if we had an FF Pentax, the 35 & 85mm would have to come from Sigma or Samyang anyway !
08-19-2014, 02:08 PM   #235
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Snio.....

In body stabilization is really great, I love it for my small Pentax lenses . Not sure it is really key on modern lenses if you are not size/weight bounded. Optical stabilization seems to work little better, for tele it is really better.
.
I disagree optical stabilization does nothing to correct the inherent rotation around the long axis of the lens when you press the shutter this is where a lot of blur comes from.

In body is the only method that can correct this
08-19-2014, 02:20 PM   #236
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
I disagree optical stabilization does nothing to correct the inherent rotation around the long axis of the lens when you press the shutter this is where a lot of blur comes from.

In body is the only method that can correct this
For pratical means:

- optical stabilisation get the view finder stabilized.
- allow in practice for slower shutter speed.

That what people can typically achieve with it. Don't care the technical detail that are anyway implementation dependant (what body, what lense...). Maybe the rotation arround the long axis is not the most common shake effect ?
08-19-2014, 02:51 PM   #237
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
For pratical means:

- optical stabilisation get the view finder stabilized.
- allow in practice for slower shutter speed.

That what people can typically achieve with it. Don't care the technical detail that are anyway implementation dependant (what body, what lense...). Maybe the rotation arround the long axis is not the most common shake effect ?
I have successful held a 500mm lens on a pentax K7 ( now somewhat lower performance than later shake reduction bodies) at 1/40th

That's something better than 4 stops. I don't really need any better.

As for stabilized viewfinder , I agree and this can improve focusing accuracy as well. But a little technique can solve that too

As for rotation, while it is perhaps not the most predominant, it remains something left on the table by optical stabilization, and in the downfalls of optical stabilization you fail to note off axis distortion and loss of sharpness. So yes, the middle is sharp at the expense of the edges.
09-02-2014, 04:23 AM   #238
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My first DSLR was a Nikon D3000. When you are with canikon, the mantra is: buy an APS-C camera, learn how to do photography, and then buy a $3000/$4000 professional FF camera (Those were the prices at the time). Or if you can't afford a pro FF camera, just buy either Canon or Nikon, because they make the best FF cameras, and their crop cameras are the best. Thats like buying a Chevrolet Aveo .......because of the Chevrolet Corvette. Or learning to drive on the Aveo, then graduating to the Corvette (that ain't gonna work, you'd learn to drive on a Mitsubishi EVO, and then to a Corvette). BUT THATS THE LOGIC OF THE CANIKON RELIGIOUS CULT !

So what kind of false logic can be presented by the marketing department to sell $2000 or $4000 FF camera bodies ?

The only thing that would be appealing to me, would be: really great high ISO performance; Shake Reduction in body; Really compact body; Very light body (for travel); very compact lenses (I do not want canikon style whopper lenses); and maybe a mirrorless FF with kicka** auto focus.............

Something like what I'm suggesting would be mocked, because they expect Pentax to copy the canikon. Did Sony copy the canikon with the A99, no they tried something different with SLT. Did it work out for them, maybe be a little. Sony took FF to its mirrorless models, and they've been received very well. Sony is not directly challenging canon or nikon, and Sony is such a huge company it could crush both Nikon and Canon. So what is Sony's game, they don't want to copy the business models of other companies, and they want to innovate new products and develop new product segments and markets. I think Pentax will bring something different to the market, and for that it will receive scorn.

I think you'll find there is Kellogg's cornflakes, then there is one or two generic cornflake manufacturers. Is there room for one Kellogg's cornflakes, plus three other generic cornflake brands ? Not really, so the breakfast cereal manufacturers invent new styles of breakfast cereal, like coccopops, or fruit loops etc etc.

Pentax will have to bring something to the market that will captivate the potential buyer, and it might be received with scorn and venom by the canikon users. Look at the Canon EOS M, Canon innovated (copied) from the Nex, the UI was atrocious, and its heavily discounted and an orphan, just like the K-01 was.
09-02-2014, 03:55 PM   #239
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You said Fruit Loops and all I saw was multicoloured Pentaxes being sold by a Tucan mascot.

Although a big, bright OVF is one of things I'm hoping for in a possible FF, if they came out with a mirrorless FF that didn't look like it came out of a cereal box I'd be happy enough. I may not buy it, but I wouldn't make fun of it, either.

The big problem I see when 'Designers' get a hold of a camera design contract: They seem to start removing buttons... it's like a habit or a rule or something... "ZOMG! Too many buttons! What do they all doooo?". So those functions end up buried in menus, and enthusiasts poo-poo the design.

Reminds me of the scene in the movie "Amadeus" when the Emperor (Jeffery Jones) says about the music of Mozart "Too many notes!".

Where is that image of the frankencamera from a few years ago with every possible button, wheel, joystick and display on it? Every designer should get a memo: "This is not too many buttons". Snerk.
09-02-2014, 04:51 PM   #240
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QuoteOriginally posted by noser Quote
You said Fruit Loops and all I saw was multicoloured Pentaxes being sold by a Tucan mascot.
Yeah bad analogy ! I quite like the colors, why ? Because you can spot a fellow Pentaxian a mile away, and thats a good way to differentiate the brand. Plus black cameras and lenses look a little sinister. Other camera brands make different colored camera bodies and they are heaped with praise, and I don't know why Pentax gets singled out for criticism.

If Pentax can produce a FF camera that ticks all the right boxes for the professionals, then it will receive plenty of scorn from the industry. If they go down a different path into mirrorless, there'll be even more scorn. Either way Pentax gets criticized for EVERYTHING it produces.
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