Why are FF images so much more pleasing than APS-C?

jsherman999 · 09-01-2014, 06:56 PM - **2 Likes**

Sometimes you just want a knife you want:

... and are tired of being told to settle for:

John Poirier · 09-01-2014, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by Joel B

The question should not be how big of a potato you need, but what is put on it. You know, sour cream, bacon, cheese, chives, etc. A big potato plain is just for show!

In other words, features are more important than size. I'm waiting for autopeel potatoes myself. Anyone going to Spudkina 2015?

philbaum · 09-03-2014, 04:34 PM

True Story: About 30 years ago, i was in a conference room with 20 others in a modern office type building. The meeting ran late on a Friday night and we could hear the traffic in the outside corrider clear out as we were trying to complete the meeting. No windows to this conference room, just the one door.

We go to open the door and it would not open or budge. We banged on the door several times but we were apparently alone in the 4 story building on a Friday night. And work didn't resume till Monday morning. And this was no lightweight door, hinges or lock - commercial/industrial quality.

Luckily i carried the Swiss Army tinker knife like the one below in my pants pocket. I pulled it out and gave it to one of the stronger members of our group, who used it to pry the hinge pins out and then we were able to remove the door from the metal jamb. I got some good natured ribbing over the wimpy nature of the knife, but many seemed grateful that we got out of the predicament in less than 10 minutes. There was no phone in the room and at the time, noone carried cell phones.

I suppose if i hadn't had the knife, we probably would have waited for an hour or two for some security guard to find us. Failing that, we probably would have used chairs to break through the sheet rock wall.

**jatrax** · 09-03-2014, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by philbaum

Luckily i carried the Swiss Army tinker knife like the one below in my pants pocket.

I have carried that exact model for over thirty years! Not the same knife as I've lost or broken several but always replaced it with the same one. It's gotten me out of a lot of jams, though nothing like yours

Venturi · 09-03-2014, 07:10 PM

Marklar marklar. Marklar, marklar-marklar marklar marklar. Marklar marklar marklar marklar marklar. Marklar marklar marklar. Marklar marklar marklar, marklar marklar marklar marklar. Marklar.

stevebrot · 09-03-2014, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by Dartmoor Dave

Really, if you're not using the full-size Sabatier knives your cooking is always going to be second-rate.

I love my Sabatier...all 9 inches of it. I also love my 3 inch Mundial. The Mundial sucks for cutting watermelon though and cutting/coring apples with the Sabatier is tedious.

Steve

---------- Post added 09-03-14 at 11:13 PM ----------

Originally posted by c.a.m

Me, I changed over to a 3-inch (7.5 cm) multi-purpose army pocketknife for all my chores - hiking, workshop, kitchen. It works really well for most tasks, but it's a bit of a letdown when trying to carve up watermelons and the Christmas turkey. No offence to the Swiss, but I'm thinking of coming back to a set of knives that are tailored to different tasks.

I have a 3" Victorinox with locking blade that works nicely for many things, but watermelon...nah...won't go there...

Steve

jogiba · 09-04-2014, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by jsherman999

Sometimes you just want a knife you want:

... and are tired of being told to settle for:

You Tube

**jatrax** · 09-04-2014, 07:50 PM

Classic

biz-engineer · 04-19-2019, 11:10 PM

Originally posted by Nicolas06

Second point for me is metering. Outside of the default exposure in Pentax that is maybe a little more, as mirorless A7r can use all the sensor to get perfect exposure. K5 has 77 black & white metering. I do find K3 to expose better than ,K5 and I get less blown out highlight than before. Again not really an FF vs APSC argument.

Whether it is 77 segments, 86K RGB or mirrorless exposure, the final resolution isn't better than + - 0.3 EV.

Wheatfield · 04-20-2019, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by Adam

It's not the equipment, its the photographer. People who buy fullframes are more likely to be really into photography, and thus you can expect a higher proportion of eye opening photos from users of those cameras than your everyday rebel, k-r, or d3000 snapshots.

While ff also holds a technical advantage, it doesn't necessarily lead to better images

I’m not so sure. When I moved from 35mm to 6x7 I noticed the same effect as the OP is seeing. When I moved to 4x5 I noticed it again, though to a lesser degree. The camera wasn’t making me a better photographer, but the look from the equipment is definitely different.
I don’t have a technical explanation, the OP’s description of spaciousness seems to fit, though it’s about as non technical an explanation as possible.

**Kerrowdown** · 04-21-2019, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by Parallax

the ones that want the only-one-eye-in-focus portraits want FF.

It's good not to be alone...

Andrea K · 04-25-2019, 02:13 PM

Viewfinder and film era like DOF

TaoMaas · 04-26-2019, 12:56 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Wheatfield

I’m not so sure. When I moved from 35mm to 6x7 I noticed the same effect as the OP is seeing. When I moved to 4x5 I noticed it again, though to a lesser degree. The camera wasn’t making me a better photographer, but the look from the equipment is definitely different.
I don’t have a technical explanation, the OP’s description of spaciousness seems to fit, though it’s about as non technical an explanation as possible.

Yeah...I'm not so sure there isn't some difference that's just hard to put your finger on. We accept that some Pentax lenses have more "pixie dust" than others, so why shouldn't there be a different feel between formats? Back in my film days, I'd always felt that Leica shots were different. Not necessarily the SLR shots, but specifically the rangefinder pics. There was just something different about the look. Never could describe it really.

normhead · 04-26-2019, 01:25 PM - **2 Likes**

APS-c or FF, which is which?

No peaking.
For myself, the best is the one I had in my hands that day.

It could be the topic for a poll.

Wheatfield · 04-26-2019, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by TaoMaas

Yeah...I'm not so sure there isn't some difference that's just hard to put your finger on. We accept that some Pentax lenses have more "pixie dust" than others, so why shouldn't there be a different feel between formats? Back in my film days, I'd always felt that Leica shots were different. Not necessarily the SLR shots, but specifically the rangefinder pics. There was just something different about the look. Never could describe it really.

I was one of the people who were “meh, it’s just more pixels” with the full frame thing, I suppose in part because I wanted some sort of confirmation bias that my inability to access a 35mm sensor camera wasn’t a big deal.
I bought a K1 a few days before it was officially available, and within a couple of hours I knew there was more to the larger format than more pixels.
Well, truth be told, I shot with a 645 that Pentax loaned to me a few years back for an afternoon, and was pretty wowed by it, so I already knew there was more to it than more pixels. What surprised me was how big a difference the relatively small jump in size from APS-C to 35mm made.

09-01-2014, 06:56 PM - 2 Likes	#211
jsherman999 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,237	want vs need, with knives Sometimes you just want a knife you want: ... and are tired of being told to settle for:

04-26-2019, 01:25 PM - 2 Likes	#224
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	APS-c or FF, which is which? No peaking. For myself, the best is the one I had in my hands that day. It could be the topic for a poll. Last edited by normhead; 04-26-2019 at 01:39 PM.

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09-01-2014, 07:03 PM	#212
John Poirier Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Gabriola Island Posts: 619	Originally posted by Joel B The question should not be how big of a potato you need, but what is put on it. You know, sour cream, bacon, cheese, chives, etc. A big potato plain is just for show! In other words, features are more important than size. I'm waiting for autopeel potatoes myself. Anyone going to Spudkina 2015?

09-03-2014, 04:34 PM	#213
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	True Story: About 30 years ago, i was in a conference room with 20 others in a modern office type building. The meeting ran late on a Friday night and we could hear the traffic in the outside corrider clear out as we were trying to complete the meeting. No windows to this conference room, just the one door. We go to open the door and it would not open or budge. We banged on the door several times but we were apparently alone in the 4 story building on a Friday night. And work didn't resume till Monday morning. And this was no lightweight door, hinges or lock - commercial/industrial quality. Luckily i carried the Swiss Army tinker knife like the one below in my pants pocket. I pulled it out and gave it to one of the stronger members of our group, who used it to pry the hinge pins out and then we were able to remove the door from the metal jamb. I got some good natured ribbing over the wimpy nature of the knife, but many seemed grateful that we got out of the predicament in less than 10 minutes. There was no phone in the room and at the time, noone carried cell phones. I suppose if i hadn't had the knife, we probably would have waited for an hour or two for some security guard to find us. Failing that, we probably would have used chairs to break through the sheet rock wall.

09-03-2014, 05:01 PM	#214
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by philbaum Luckily i carried the Swiss Army tinker knife like the one below in my pants pocket. I have carried that exact model for over thirty years! Not the same knife as I've lost or broken several but always replaced it with the same one. It's gotten me out of a lot of jams, though nothing like yours

09-03-2014, 07:10 PM	#215
Venturi Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tulsa, OK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,636	Marklar marklar. Marklar, marklar-marklar marklar marklar. Marklar marklar marklar marklar marklar. Marklar marklar marklar. Marklar marklar marklar, marklar marklar marklar marklar. Marklar.

09-03-2014, 11:06 PM	#216
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Dartmoor Dave Really, if you're not using the full-size Sabatier knives your cooking is always going to be second-rate. I love my Sabatier...all 9 inches of it. I also love my 3 inch Mundial. The Mundial sucks for cutting watermelon though and cutting/coring apples with the Sabatier is tedious. Steve ---------- Post added 09-03-14 at 11:13 PM ---------- Originally posted by c.a.m Me, I changed over to a 3-inch (7.5 cm) multi-purpose army pocketknife for all my chores - hiking, workshop, kitchen. It works really well for most tasks, but it's a bit of a letdown when trying to carve up watermelons and the Christmas turkey. No offence to the Swiss, but I'm thinking of coming back to a set of knives that are tailored to different tasks. I have a 3" Victorinox with locking blade that works nicely for many things, but watermelon...nah...won't go there... Steve

09-04-2014, 07:50 PM	#218
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Classic

04-19-2019, 11:10 PM	#219
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,246	Originally posted by Nicolas06 Second point for me is metering. Outside of the default exposure in Pentax that is maybe a little more, as mirorless A7r can use all the sensor to get perfect exposure. K5 has 77 black & white metering. I do find K3 to expose better than ,K5 and I get less blown out highlight than before. Again not really an FF vs APSC argument. Whether it is 77 segments, 86K RGB or mirrorless exposure, the final resolution isn't better than + - 0.3 EV.

04-20-2019, 08:49 AM	#220
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,986	Originally posted by Adam It's not the equipment, its the photographer. People who buy fullframes are more likely to be really into photography, and thus you can expect a higher proportion of eye opening photos from users of those cameras than your everyday rebel, k-r, or d3000 snapshots. While ff also holds a technical advantage, it doesn't necessarily lead to better images I’m not so sure. When I moved from 35mm to 6x7 I noticed the same effect as the OP is seeing. When I moved to 4x5 I noticed it again, though to a lesser degree. The camera wasn’t making me a better photographer, but the look from the equipment is definitely different. I don’t have a technical explanation, the OP’s description of spaciousness seems to fit, though it’s about as non technical an explanation as possible.

04-21-2019, 10:12 AM	#221
Kerrowdown PEG Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highlands of Scotland... "Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand" - William Blake Photos: Gallery Posts: 57,860	Originally posted by Parallax the ones that want the only-one-eye-in-focus portraits want FF. It's good not to be alone...

04-25-2019, 02:13 PM	#222
Andrea K Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Rome, Italy Posts: 822	Viewfinder and film era like DOF

04-26-2019, 12:56 PM - 1 Like	#223
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	Originally posted by Wheatfield I’m not so sure. When I moved from 35mm to 6x7 I noticed the same effect as the OP is seeing. When I moved to 4x5 I noticed it again, though to a lesser degree. The camera wasn’t making me a better photographer, but the look from the equipment is definitely different. I don’t have a technical explanation, the OP’s description of spaciousness seems to fit, though it’s about as non technical an explanation as possible. Yeah...I'm not so sure there isn't some difference that's just hard to put your finger on. We accept that some Pentax lenses have more "pixie dust" than others, so why shouldn't there be a different feel between formats? Back in my film days, I'd always felt that Leica shots were different. Not necessarily the SLR shots, but specifically the rangefinder pics. There was just something different about the look. Never could describe it really.

04-26-2019, 03:42 PM	#225
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,986	Originally posted by TaoMaas Yeah...I'm not so sure there isn't some difference that's just hard to put your finger on. We accept that some Pentax lenses have more "pixie dust" than others, so why shouldn't there be a different feel between formats? Back in my film days, I'd always felt that Leica shots were different. Not necessarily the SLR shots, but specifically the rangefinder pics. There was just something different about the look. Never could describe it really. I was one of the people who were “meh, it’s just more pixels” with the full frame thing, I suppose in part because I wanted some sort of confirmation bias that my inability to access a 35mm sensor camera wasn’t a big deal. I bought a K1 a few days before it was officially available, and within a couple of hours I knew there was more to the larger format than more pixels. Well, truth be told, I shot with a 645 that Pentax loaned to me a few years back for an afternoon, and was pretty wowed by it, so I already knew there was more to it than more pixels. What surprised me was how big a difference the relatively small jump in size from APS-C to 35mm made.