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08-18-2014, 11:08 AM   #1
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Why are FF images so much more pleasing than APS-C?

Hi there,

I am sure this post is going to annoy many people - I am most certainly a novice and I am sure this is demonstrated by my question.
Nevertheless, I have been spending quite a bit of time on Flickr recently going through various Flickr groups of specific locations (e.g Neist Point, Skye, Scotland) and the thing that most struck me was how it was immediately obvious whether a photo was taken on a fullframe system or a crop camera. Fullframe images just seem so much more 'spacious' that those from aps-c - as in I would feel much more relaxed looking at a FF image than an APS-C image, even when the component of the images were essentially the same - in fact in some cases people using pro aps-c gear had churned out a better composition than those with FF gear. Nevertheless, without exception the FF images were more 'pleasing' and easy on the eye.

I can only think this has something to do with pixel size or resolution - presumably a result of high end glass being used on the FF systems (I expect they are being used by pros afterall).

Does anyone have any insight into this?

Many thanks.

Charlie

08-18-2014, 11:13 AM - 1 Like   #2
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It's not the equipment, its the photographer. People who buy fullframes are more likely to be really into photography, and thus you can expect a higher proportion of eye opening photos from users of those cameras than your everyday rebel, k-r, or d3000 snapshots.

While ff also holds a technical advantage, it doesn't necessarily lead to better images

Adam
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08-18-2014, 11:13 AM - 6 Likes   #3
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Interesting observation.

Going for popcorn, will be right back
08-18-2014, 11:17 AM   #4
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Wonder how that observation would play out if you were shown random photos without having any indication what kind of camera they were taken with. As it sits, confirmation bias seems evident.

08-18-2014, 11:18 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
It's not the equipment, its the photographer. People who buy fullframes are more likely to be really into photography, and thus you can expect a higher proportion of eye opening photos from users of those cameras than your everyday rebel, k-r, or d3000 snapshots.

While ff also holds a technical advantage, it doesn't necessarily lead to better images
Hi Adam,

Yes I did think much the same (ie a pro is going to have a FF at the end of the day) but I was wondering when people talk about 'larger pixels' as an advantage, e,g when people compared d700 and the 5d mark ii back in the day, is it only an advantage in terms of high iso performance (potentially, though obviously more advanced higher mp sensors of later generation can often match older sensors of lower mp count)? Or does it have some effect on the overall feel of the image.

I understand this sounds extremely stupid... but there is something i cannot put my finger on that just makes a FF image have something 'extra' than a pro looking aps-c one does not. Maybe it's canon's colour rendition that I am finding pleasing (mostly 5d mk iis/iiis used by the people's albums i am using atm).

Charlie

---------- Post added 08-18-14 at 11:24 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by narual Quote
Wonder how that observation would play out if you were shown random photos without having any indication what kind of camera they were taken with. As it sits, confirmation bias seems evident.
May well be, makes absolutely no sense to me, but when I refer to an image as 'pleasing' I just mean more on my eye - as in it's as if I dont have to squint so much (not that I squint, but just to demonstrate it is not an emotional reaction I am referring to but more a physical one).

I understand this makes no sense..hence I am asking the question. Maybe it is a bit like looking at a photo taken with some Leica glass and then comparing it to something with a standard lens and thinking 'wow that image really pops in a way i cannot put my finger on'. So i wouldn't be able to really describe what I mean by 'pop' both might appear very similar in terms of colour and composition. Now here the word isn't 'pop' but I just find them more pleasing - it is as if my brain does not have to do as much processing.

Do FF cameras tend to produce 'sharper' images? Are they better at recording subtleties in lighting? Or am I just mad?

I am not trolling.

Charlie
08-18-2014, 11:25 AM - 1 Like   #6
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Probably because the good pictures were taken with FF cameras by real pros as everyone knows APS-C is only used by tourist wanna-be's. </sarc> </joke> </ducking and hiding>
08-18-2014, 11:33 AM   #7
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maybe it is a depth of field thing
08-18-2014, 11:33 AM - 1 Like   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by chaza01 Quote
Why are FF images so much more pleasing than APS-C?
More space for pixie dust...


Steve

08-18-2014, 11:33 AM   #9
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I agree with Adam.

Per these Japan numbers, 8.7% of sales go to full frame.
Best selling cameras in Japan for 2013 and the future of the industry according to one financial analyst | Photo Rumors

Of that 8.7% how many inexperienced photogs buy full frame? Probably pretty low.
Now out of the 91.3% of crop body purchasers (and top 74% of sales go to CaNikon) how many of those are high experienced? Simple logic (based upon the desire for full frame on this website) shows that most experienced photogs and pros go for Full Frame or want Full Frame when available, and even when full frame is not available, still strive for better equipment (ie, upgrade from K5 to K3).
So if you agree (and you might not) that most full frame shooters are more experienced, you'll see how hard it would be to compare full frame vs crop on a site like Flickr, and not get biased results...
08-18-2014, 11:37 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistlefoot Quote
I agree with Adam.

Per these Japan numbers, 8.7% of sales go to full frame.
Best selling cameras in Japan for 2013 and the future of the industry according to one financial analyst | Photo Rumors

Of that 8.7% how many inexperienced photogs buy full frame? Probably pretty low.
Now out of the 91.3% of crop body purchasers (and top 74% of sales go to CaNikon) how many of those are high experienced? Simple logic (based upon the desire for full frame on this website) shows that most experienced photogs and pros go for Full Frame or want Full Frame when available, and even when full frame is not available, still strive for better equipment (ie, upgrade from K5 to K3).
So if you agree (and you might not) that most full frame shooters are more experienced, you'll see how hard it would be to compare full frame vs crop on a site like Flickr, and not get biased results...
Also if you have an impressive sensor you need equally impressive glass if you want to make the most out of the resolution advantage (I think I read somewhere how you really want Zeiss glass to make the most of the D800's sensor).

Would that also contribute?

I stress that composition is not influencing me here, I looked at an extremely impressive photo just now taken with a 450d with over 500 favourites on flickr but my eyes had more trouble processing it vs a likely weaker FF equivalent. That's surely resolution?

Charlie
08-18-2014, 11:38 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by chaza01 Quote
I can only think this has something to do with pixel size or resolution
Nope. The images you're looking at have all been downsampled to two megapixels or less.

QuoteOriginally posted by narual Quote
As it sits, confirmation bias seems evident.
That's the only reasonable answer.
08-18-2014, 11:39 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by chaza01 Quote
Hi there,

I am sure this post is going to annoy many people - I am most certainly a novice and I am sure this is demonstrated by my question.
Nevertheless, I have been spending quite a bit of time on Flickr recently going through various Flickr groups of specific locations (e.g Neist Point, Skye, Scotland) and the thing that most struck me was how it was immediately obvious whether a photo was taken on a fullframe system or a crop camera. Fullframe images just seem so much more 'spacious' that those from aps-c - as in I would feel much more relaxed looking at a FF image than an APS-C image, even when the component of the images were essentially the same - in fact in some cases people using pro aps-c gear had churned out a better composition than those with FF gear. Nevertheless, without exception the FF images were more 'pleasing' and easy on the eye.

I can only think this has something to do with pixel size or resolution - presumably a result of high end glass being used on the FF systems (I expect they are being used by pros afterall).

Does anyone have any insight into this?

Many thanks.

Charlie
I have seen some remarkably 'spacious' images shot with m-4/3; all you need is an ultra wide angle lens!

Banter aside:

Go to the Nikon D600 flickr pool, and you shall find that the dull images outnumber the classy ones by a wide margin. Check out the flickr pools for the better m-4/3 and APS-C lenses, and you will most certainly come across plenty of stunning images.
08-18-2014, 11:44 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by DominicVII Quote
I have seen some remarkably 'spacious' images shot with m-4/3; all you need is an ultra wide angle lens!

Banter aside:

Go to the Nikon D600 flickr pool, and you shall find that the dull images outnumber the classy ones by a wide margin. Check out the flickr pools for the better m-4/3 and APS-C lenses, and you will most certainly come across plenty of stunning images.
I'll tell you what, could someone post two photos - with both looking very good from a composition standpoint - 1 from a FF, 1 from an aps-c and I'll see if I can tell u which one is which.

Maybe it is 'confirmation bias' but i assure you I was not aware of what camera was used until I checked it each time - and I decided which images were more pleasing immediately.
08-18-2014, 11:45 AM - 2 Likes   #14
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FF cameras have a full sized "Delete" button, which means garbage photos are easier to get rid of and less likely to make their way to the interwebs.

Honestly viewing random photos on Flickr at web sizes, I wouldn't put any money on me guessing which photos were FF and which were APS-C. There's a thread here about the "Guess The Format" quiz that you might find interesting https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/244530-challenge...e-pundits.html
08-18-2014, 11:46 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
FF cameras have a full sized "Delete" button, which means garbage photos are easier to get rid of and less likely to make their way to the interwebs.

Honestly viewing random photos on Flickr at web sizes, I wouldn't put any money on me guessing which photos were FF and which were APS-C. There's a thread here about the "Guess The Format" quiz that you might find interesting https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/244530-challenge...e-pundits.html
Perfect! Ill take a look .
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