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09-01-2014, 02:07 PM - 2 Likes   #16
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The DA15 is like a magic image machine. At first, I didn't think it was all that sharp, and it's only OK in the sharpness department for a premium prime lens. But it has that special something in it. Pixie dust? Who knows. I just know that when I put it in the camera and start taking pictures, magic happens. Here's an example, this was just before the golden hour on a very cloudy day. I went to the beach hoping for sunset, but that was ruined by the clouds. Anyway, I shot this couple just walking by...and the colors, oh wow did they turn out!

My Labrador, Milo..This is just a super fun shot.

And when you point it right at the sun, the sun bows down in fear of the flare resistance of the mighty 15.

And the 15 LIVES for the night:

09-01-2014, 02:08 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by mdshooting Quote
The video and some of the lens limitations is possibly my biggest reason for looking elsewhere.
I'm getting more interested in video too lately, which is not a strong suit for Pentax at the moment. But if video is a primary factor, the full frame isn't as important as the camera makers make it out to be. All of the ff video is shot at a crop, and if you're thinking 4k, most of the time, the crop is quite significant. The crop in the GH4 in 4k mode is 2.2, which is about what a Blackmagic is. I think the exception is the A7s, but of course the A7s doesn't shoot 4k without a separate recording unit. So, 4k in an ff dslr, right this second, you're probably looking at a 5Diii with a hack, which isn't a crazy appealing option. The truth is, if Pentax improved their video offerings, APSC would probably be a big enough sensor. That jello effect everyone hates gets worse as the sensor gets bigger, which is why M43 is so stable in video. APSC is smaller than Super 35 but bigger than M43, and much bigger than most camcorder sensors. Pentax could maximize APSC in that direction, if they were so inclined. Evidence: the Samsung NX1 will do (or attempt to do) just that. That said, by the end of the year there will probably be some more DSLR options with strong video—and by the end of next year, undoubtedly.

And eventually, of course, Pentax will have a camera that has it all. But given their reliance on Sony sensors, it's difficult to imagine they'll be first.
09-01-2014, 02:08 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by mdshooting Quote
I think I might get a few rentals of other brands to find out what suits me first before taking the leap.....or.....jump!
+100 When the D600 came out I briefly considered switching. Fell prey to all the FF hype. Actually had the D600 in my cart at Costco for a great price. But the more I handled the demo model and played with the menus and buttons the less I liked it. I decided even if FF was better (for some definition of better) I would not enjoy using it. I put it back on the shelf.

So rent a couple for a weekend and see what feels right. If you like using the Canon or a FF Nikon, great. But for me being efficient and enjoying my work was more important than any potential marginal improvement in image quality. I don't do video, and I don't like super small DOF though so my experience might be different than yours.

If/when Pentax brings out a FF, I'm still betting on Photokina, I will take a look and if it feels right, I'll think hard about it. But it would have to add something to the end results of my work to justify the purchase.
09-01-2014, 02:11 PM   #19
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It's not a problem.

Video: I've not used other brands, but from reading lots of reviews Pentax falls short, in quality, compression, features. If I'm honest the fact that another brand is so good that it can be used for broadcast, that a pulling factor.

Full-Frame: I want the extra quality that FF brings, included within the video realm. Also from what I can fathom, FF generally helps in lower light and I want to do a lot of golden hour landscape and astro so I hope i think that helps.

I've been looking at the Sigma 10-20mm F3.5 for landscape, alongside the Pentax 12-24 F4 (which I'm leaning towards). I also liked the Samyang 10mm F2.8 but as I would be unable to use my Lee Filter system I've ruled this out. The Pentax 12-24 is likely the winner if I don't decide to go elsewhere. Then again the primes like the DA15 is another choice.

---------- Post added 09-01-14 at 02:18 PM ----------

The DA 15 does indeed look superb! I might have just been turned hehe, would anyone suggest the DA 14mm F.2.8 over the DA 15??

I have considered waiting until the next rendition of Pentax is released, the predecessor of the K-3 be that a mark 2 version of another model completely. The main hope of this option is that the next model has the video I'm looking for :-)

09-01-2014, 02:20 PM   #20

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I learned on a K1000, then an MZ-S, went digital with *istD and k10D and then right into 5D (classic), no pause, no waiting…… If its not on the market and not being talked about by the manufacturer, why wait ?
09-01-2014, 02:25 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by mdshooting Quote
All this has started as I have spent the day trying to find good glass in the 10-24mm (16-35mm FF) range. Third party lenses can do this but the reviews, don't exactly endear me to spend the money on something that so many have declared as "not very good".
One of the things I am looking for too, for church interiors. The choices out there seem mainly to be Samyang primes, Sigma zooms or the DA 12-24mm. I have the DA 15mm but it is rather soft outside the centre of the frame for really good architectural images indoors, or that is my experience or perhaps just copy of this lens. Outdoors, the DA 15mm is another matter since it has wonderful colour rendition. In fact I get better results indoors using the DA 16-50mm at 16mm at f9 or f11 on a tripod; I've found that with a bit more PP (clarity, detail) this lens can suffice perfectly well for wider shots (16-24mm, e.g.) and it has excellent colour rendition too. Another avenue would be older manual lenses but I haven't investigated that. I don't really want to spring for the 12-24mm because it is so expensive where I live, well on the way to the cost of full-on FF glass from the usual suspects. Have you looked at the Samyang MF primes of 10mm, 14mm or 16mm? I've no personal idea of their qualities but they are reasonably priced and are widely and usually favourably reviewed. Finally there is the Sigma 8-16mm - which regularly gets high praise. It's hard to find new, as it's no longer made for K-mount I believe, but perhaps it can be picked up secondhand if you are prepared to wait - and the venerable 10-20mm.

Last edited by mecrox; 09-01-2014 at 02:54 PM.
09-01-2014, 02:28 PM - 1 Like   #22
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I'm in the same boat. I would hate to have to get all new glass, but if by years end there is no FF or no word of one coming next year, I'm thinking the Nikon 610 looks very good. I've heard some say it is Nikon's best camera yet.. even better than the 810 (unless you're into megapixels)
09-01-2014, 02:31 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by mdshooting Quote
All this has started as I have spent the day trying to find good glass in the 10-24mm (16-35mm FF) range. Third party lenses can do this but the reviews, don't exactly endear me to spend the money on something that so many have declared as "not very good".
Pentax (ultra) wide primes: Pentax DA 14mm f2.8, Pentax DA 15mm limited, Pentax DA 21mm limited
Pentax (ultra) wide zooms: Pentax 12-24mm, Pentax 10-17mm fisheye
These are all good quality. Feel free to look at the sample photo gallery or search on flickr. I don't see how FF would "improve" those photos. Then you also have all the third party options

Samyang (no AF, but excellent optics for a very low price): 10mm, 14mm (ff compatible), 16mm, 24mm f1.4, 24mm tilt/shift
Sigma 10-20mm (two versions), Sigma 8-16mm, Sigma 18-35mm (highly praised f1.8 zoom), Tamron 10-24mm
Then you have the modern Zeiss prime lenses that go from 20mm to 26mm, these come in m42 mount and used to be made in k mount as well. Voigtlander also used to make a 20mm lens in K mount, I think.
And of course, all the many, many legacy lenses. True, legacy ultra wides are expensive and often don't perform as well as modern, computer-design aided ultra wide lenses, but it is an option.

I don't think 10mm or 8mm is "not wide enough", even on crop sensor. If that is not wide enough, you still have fisheyes (Peleng 8mm, Zenitar 16mm, Samyang 8mm, etc.) and you can correct distortion in post.
True, FF makes 28mm wide, while on crop sensor 28mm is not that wide. But there are many wide and ultra wide choices for crop sensor available these days. I remember seeing some chart that showed there are more crop sensor ultra wide equivalents available than full frame ultra wides, especially if you are looking to spend under $1600 per lens.

But good luck with Canon or Nikon. If FF improves your photos, awesome!

09-01-2014, 02:31 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by mdshooting Quote
If I'm honest the fact that another brand is so good that it can be used for broadcast, that a pulling factor.
If "broadcast quality" is your criteria, the GH4 can do it for 1600. You'll have 4k to crop, too. But that's a smaller sensor, and the video from an APSC sensor will have more in the way of shallow depth of field, that filmic look. At this juncture, if you want video, buying less than 4k is just weird. Personally, I think the M43 sensor is too small; it looks camcorder to me (unless it's another close-up of a thistle, gag), and the stills really suffer. Supposedly the new Samsung will have it, and the new A99 (January I think), and who knows who else will announce in the next few months.

Last edited by easyreeder; 09-01-2014 at 02:33 PM. Reason: quoted too much
09-01-2014, 02:35 PM   #25
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This was one of my main train of thoughts when thinking about moving to something like the Canon line.

The 12-24 F4 is £800 in the UK from my usual dealer, whereas the Canon 16-35mm F2.8 is £1200 so there is only £400 difference in it and in my opinion the extra £400 nets me more lens the money. The 12-24 is well and truly on the way to the full frame alternative i'm looking for. I can pick up the Canon lens on ebay for just over £1000 which brings the cost difference closer to £200.

OK I'm not factoring in the fact that a Canon 5d mark iii is currently £1750
09-01-2014, 02:49 PM - 1 Like   #26
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The Canon's nice, MDS, but if you really love your landscapes the 645Z would be something else again. :-)
09-01-2014, 02:51 PM - 1 Like   #27
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I am also in the middle of a change ... see ... however, video is not important to me.
Most important argument for me is that I have great lenses, but I don't like the crop factor. My 31mm is not 31mm on APS-C, you know. Shallow DOF and landscape work, and characterful lenses like the helios etc. are my reasons for full frame.
I have already put aside the money to buy into a system straight away, however, just decided to wait what photokina brings and instead investing some money in a 3-week trip to Indonesia to take some great pics with my trusty K5 ;-)
09-01-2014, 02:55 PM - 2 Likes   #28
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Anyone who says I need an FF, should be gone, never should have bought in the first place.... etc. etc.
What FF gives you is the ability to throw more money at your problems. Just don't count on that to solve your problems.

My image DA 18-135 100 ISO, ƒ5, 1/200/ shot at 28mm...

My buddies D800 image

Mine , for whatever reason has much better resolution, probably because of SR. Mine was hand held, his D800 was on a tripod.

D800 image

Pentax K-3, SIgma 8-16 at 8mm

Using APS_c, I got wider, maybe that's just personal preference, but you tell me, what Nikon lens is the equivalent of 8mm on APS-c?

I'm not saying you can't have reasons for wanting an FF. I'm just saying, there are other factors involved. Don't be so sure that if you're not getting what you want now, you're going to get it on FF. There's a lot of situations where a lot of other factors besides sensor size is the determining factor.
09-01-2014, 02:59 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by mdshooting Quote
whereas the Canon 16-35mm F2.8 is £1200 so there is only £400 difference in it and in my opinion the extra £400 nets me more lens the money.
It's good that you are looking at options and costs but be sure to perform some due diligence on your choices. FM Forums has quality information about Canon and Nikon brands without a lot of mindless rah rah pablum.

Consider the new Canon 16-35 f4 IS instead. It is supposed to be better in a few ways. Canon had been weak optically with ultra-wide lenses prior. If you need a faster lens, the Tokina 16-28mm f2.8 is considered superior optically to the older Canon lens. The Tokina, is however, heavy and a little delicate due to the bulbous front element. I picked up a Tamron 17-35mm f2.8-3.5 in mint condition and have been very pleasantly surprised. It's light and cheap with very decent optics.

While I think renting is really smart, I would assume some shooter you know has a 5D MK3 you could play with for a while. Even an older 5DMK2, while inferior is a lot of subtle ways--especially interface and AF--, it should give you a feel for the weight and sense of how it works.

I also don't think it would be worth having to support two separate camera brands in your case. And wait until Photokina is over prior to making any decisions.

09-01-2014, 02:59 PM   #30
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To be honest with you I actually thought Photokina had been and gone, I don't know why. This was one of the reason I had thought it's going to be another year, my guess is that they will probably announce at K-3ii looking at previous release schedules. We can only hope and find out in a fortnight :-)

---------- Post added 09-01-14 at 03:19 PM ----------

Actually here's hoping Pentax releases some new lenses that fit my needs :-)

I've not followed Photokina before, how are announcements made? Youtube, on the photokina website, general searches etc? Also is everything announced on the first day? Or do they tend to roll things out over the five days?


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