Should I stay? Or, should I go?

mdshooting · 09-01-2014, 01:07 PM

As I am getting more and more in to photography. I find myself wanting more. As we are all aware, more means, more money!

I am an avid Pentaxian and loyal to remain with the Pentax brand, however if I remove money from the conversation (I wish I could do this!!!!) what is Pentax doing to keep me as a customer? I want a Full-Frame Camera! Yet Pentax refuses to even keep us updated on how this is evolving. Would it not be better to say that they are not currently working on a Full-Frame Camera? No of course it wouldn't, to do this would encourage those waiting around to bleed off to disparate brands and get what they have wanted for sometime. Equally if they are working on something, to keep quiet only add's to frustration within the Pentax world.

I look for new gear to do things I can't presently do and find myself being tempted by other brands who offer much more, admittedly at more cost. Despite the cost, the offering's available like better video recording, full-frame, own brand lenses that give me what leave me questioning my loyalties. I still want to stay with the Pentax brand........That said.......Unless I can see that there is more coming from Pentax (at the early stage that I am at) within the Photography world would it not make sense to jump ship now before I've bought more and more equipment?

The K-3 is a leap forwards and certainly shows that Pentax is developing what they have, but I still think we have a right to know whether things are moving in a direction that this "Pentax Full Frame" thread appears to want to go.

So I ask two questions:
1. Is a Full-Frame Camera actually in development?
2. Is Pentax developing more lenses to cater or compete with there competitions third party lenses?

If no lenses are in development for the current sensors then I would have thought this suggests that Pentax is developing a Full-Frame and shifting there lens development to cater for a new breed of Pentax DSLR.

All this has started as I have spent the day trying to find good glass in the 10-24mm (16-35mm FF) range. Third party lenses can do this but the reviews, don't exactly endear me to spend the money on something that so many have declared as "not very good".

This is a little rant from me, which I must apologies. However I'm frustrated as so many other brands give me what I want, yet the brand I like so much appears to refuse to even acknowledge that the consumer wants something they don't appear too keen to put out in the public domain. Maybe it for fear that aliens will steal it who knows. Either way all comments are welcome :-)

**Rondec** · 09-01-2014, 01:18 PM - **4 Likes**

Have you tried the DA 15 limited? Or the DA 12-24? Both would be the obvious choices in your situation. As to whether you stay or go is up to you. Is your gear holding you back? If so, you probably should look elsewhere. I am sure Pentax has a lot of things under development, but life is too short to wait on a mythical full frame Pentax -- even if it was released in a couple of months, the wide angle zoom you crave is not likely to be released for a year or two afterward and you would end up falling back on third party support.

Pentax has always had odd lenses like the FA limiteds, the DA limiteds -- lenses that are slower than the competition and different focal lengths. I wouldn't expect Pentax to turn into Nikon or Canon and release similar lenses any time soon.

(some DA 15 shots).

**OrangeKx** · 09-01-2014, 01:22 PM - **1 Like**

I say if you want FF then quit Pentax now and go buy what works for you. In the time you wait for a Pentax FF you could have years of shooting another brands FF. If Pentax comes out with a FF in two years (around the same time hell freezes over) and it's the best FF camera ever then you can move to a newer FF with Pentax on the front and Ricoh on the back.

**Miguel** · 09-01-2014, 01:23 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by mdshooting

I am an avid Pentaxian and loyal to remain with the Pentax brand

Originally posted by mdshooting

yet the brand I like so much appears to refuse to even acknowledge that the consumer wants something they don't appear too keen to put out in the public domain.

I'd recommend not attaching any brand of consumer product such as a camera to personal feelings that generate loyalty. It's just stuff that generates business profits for other people--and if you are lucky maybe yourself.

If Pentax doesn't have what you need, there are plenty of other cameras and lenses that should be able to come closer. All it takes is money and a little time to master a new learning curve. I've switched most of my shooting over to Canon during the past five years, and my personal life where loyalty and emotions matter, hasn't really changed as a consequence. My photographic life has improved but only a certain proportion of that is brand and equipment related; a lot of that simply has to do with my skills still growing and my learning a few new tricks after shooting for 40 years.

M

Winder · 09-01-2014, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by mdshooting

Pentax refuses to even keep us updated on how this is evolving. Would it not be better to say that they are not currently working on a Full-Frame Camera?

I don't think they have fully committed to the idea of producing a FF DSLR, so they don't really can't make a statement one way or the other.

There are trade-offs with every brand currently on the market, and the market is evolving at a pretty fast pace. The Mirrorless Revolution

Sony is selling more mirrorless full-frame bodies than ff DSLR bodies. By the time Pentax develops a FF body and revamps the lens line-up how big will the market be for a FF DSLR?

What type of photography are you working on and how does a FF body help you or improve the quality of your work? Don't be a brand loyalist. Find the company that makes the equipment that meets your needs and get back to taking pictures.

mdshooting · 09-01-2014, 01:31 PM

The DA 15 looks superb, I've considered that, the DA 14mm f2.8 (if I can find one) and the 12-24 and I'm probably going to go for the 12-24 as I can move around the focal length.

If I'm honest the Full-Frame isn't the only reason I'm so interested in moving to other brands. The video capability of the Canon 5d mark iii for instance has an extra allure and pull to it. Canon do a 16-35mm f2.8 for a similar price to the Pentax 12-24 (think it approx £50 more). Other than the obvious cost of a new Full-Frame body it gives me part of the wider end I'm looking for plus full-frame but the K-3 gives me just as good a quality but less glass. Not that I think that makes as much sense as it sounded in my head.

easyreeder · 09-01-2014, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by mdshooting

As I am getting more and more in to photography. I find myself wanting more. As we are all aware, more means, more money!

I am an avid Pentaxian and loyal to remain with the Pentax brand, however if I remove money from the conversation (I wish I could do this!!!!) what is Pentax doing to keep me as a customer? I want a Full-Frame Camera! Yet Pentax refuses to even keep us updated on how this is evolving. Would it not be better to say that they are not currently working on a Full-Frame Camera? No of course it wouldn't, to do this would encourage those waiting around to bleed off to disparate brands and get what they have wanted for sometime. Equally if they are working on something, to keep quiet only add's to frustration within the Pentax world.

I look for new gear to do things I can't presently do and find myself being tempted by other brands who offer much more, admittedly at more cost. Despite the cost, the offering's available like better video recording, full-frame, own brand lenses that give me what leave me questioning my loyalties. I still want to stay with the Pentax brand........That said.......Unless I can see that there is more coming from Pentax (at the early stage that I am at) within the Photography world would it not make sense to jump ship now before I've bought more and more equipment?

The K-3 is a leap forwards and certainly shows that Pentax is developing what they have, but I still think we have a right to know whether things are moving in a direction that this "Pentax Full Frame" thread appears to want to go.

So I ask two questions:
1. Is a Full-Frame Camera actually in development?
2. Is Pentax developing more lenses to cater or compete with there competitions third party lenses?

If no lenses are in development for the current sensors then I would have thought this suggests that Pentax is developing a Full-Frame and shifting there lens development to cater for a new breed of Pentax DSLR.

All this has started as I have spent the day trying to find good glass in the 10-24mm (16-35mm FF) range. Third party lenses can do this but the reviews, don't exactly endear me to spend the money on something that so many have declared as "not very good".

This is a little rant from me, which I must apologies. However I'm frustrated as so many other brands give me what I want, yet the brand I like so much appears to refuse to even acknowledge that the consumer wants something they don't appear too keen to put out in the public domain. Maybe it for fear that aliens will steal it who knows. Either way all comments are welcome :-)

If the end of the year doesn't bring an announcement than pleases you, look seriously at the new crop of ffs that are coming from other companies. If you shoot manual, no problem, buy some adapters. You and I can hit B&H together, haha.

jimr-pdx · 09-01-2014, 01:31 PM - **1 Like**

Regardless of what we say, happiness on this front is entirely up to you. How will you feel when they do announce a FF cam, right after you've sold your dearest K-mount gear? That's going to happen to someone, and it could be you. How will your images change when you use FF with K or another? I don't think I'm the only one amazed when I hear that something can't be done with a Pentax dSLR; it it's video though you should look elsewhere as that has not been a Pentax priority.

As to FF lenses, I found it interesting that the roadmap update last spring includes two lenses that were almost immediately announced by Tokina (e.g. 70-200 f/4), so I'd expect a licence deal when FF arrives.

**jatrax** · 09-01-2014, 01:34 PM

Life is too short to worry about such things. If you need a full frame camera best you leave and get what you need. The image is what is important, not the camera or lenses. I certainly have not found anything I want to do that cannot be done on Pentax gear, but if I get to the point that there is then I'll change to another brand.

I am not sure anymore what Pentax target market is. But if you are not, then you should find what makes you happy.

mdshooting · 09-01-2014, 01:42 PM

Firstly....thanks everyone.

Primarily I use my Pentax K-5 and K-3 for landscape, the K-3 is in my opinion almost as good as FF. The video and some of the lens limitations is possibly my biggest reason for looking elsewhere.

The 5d Mark iii was used to record some US TV and parts of movies and the new Mark iv looks to have 4k capability. The video is something I'd like to move into. The K-3 was an improvement from the my K-5 but it still doesn't hit like other brands seem too.

Thanks again everyone, your comments are really appreciated, I feel torn between two tree's the old faithful and the new stronger contenders!

**c.a.m** · 09-01-2014, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by mdshooting

I want a Full-Frame Camera!

mdshooting,

You've outlined a recurring quandary - you'd like to use a FF camera system, but there is none in the Ricoh/Pentax lineup or on the Ricoh 'roadmap'. Your main requirement clearly seems to be full-frame, and there are options in the marketplace that would meet that requirement. My suggestion would be to look into another brand and acquire what you want.

In my family, we are sort of facing a similar question concerning a replacement for our aging family automobile - we want certain features/specs, but our 'preferred' brand doesn't meet all of them. Do we wait for another year or two or three, hoping that they introduce a model that would meet all of our requirements, or should we purchase another brand now? Decision, decisions!

Good luck with whatever direction you take!

- Craig

**patrick9** · 09-01-2014, 01:45 PM

I may need to rethink the DA15 It wasn't in a priority list I may need to add it to that list

**c.a.m** · 09-01-2014, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by patrick9

I may need to rethink the DA15 It wasn't in a priority list I may need to add it to that list

(Slight thread diversion: Patrick, you need to go and read through the entire 'mind-control lens club' thread right now...)

mdshooting · 09-01-2014, 01:54 PM

I think I might get a few rentals of other brands to find out what suits me first before taking the leap.....or.....jump!

DeadJohn · 09-01-2014, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by mdshooting

I want a Full-Frame Camera! ... I look for new gear to do things I can't presently do and find myself being tempted by other brands who offer much more ... better video recording, full-frame, own brand lenses ... All this has started as I have spent the day trying to find good glass in the 10-24mm (16-35mm FF) range ... Third party lenses can do this but the reviews, don't exactly endear me to spend the money on something that so many have declared as "not very good".

(sorry for all the excerpting, I'm just doing it as a reminder of the context of the original post.)

Video: I use video so rarely that I don't know how different brands compare for video.

Full frame: What do you think a larger sensor will provide that you can't get from the K-3? I ask because different people mean different things when they say they need full frame.

Own brand lenses in 10-24mm (16-35mm FF) range: The Pentax DA15 and DA21 are good lenses. What about those lenses don't meet your needs? I'm asking because we might be able to recommend alternatives that are better for you.

09-01-2014, 01:07 PM	#1
mdshooting New Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 20	Should I stay? Or, should I go? As I am getting more and more in to photography. I find myself wanting more. As we are all aware, more means, more money! I am an avid Pentaxian and loyal to remain with the Pentax brand, however if I remove money from the conversation (I wish I could do this!!!!) what is Pentax doing to keep me as a customer? I want a Full-Frame Camera! Yet Pentax refuses to even keep us updated on how this is evolving. Would it not be better to say that they are not currently working on a Full-Frame Camera? No of course it wouldn't, to do this would encourage those waiting around to bleed off to disparate brands and get what they have wanted for sometime. Equally if they are working on something, to keep quiet only add's to frustration within the Pentax world. I look for new gear to do things I can't presently do and find myself being tempted by other brands who offer much more, admittedly at more cost. Despite the cost, the offering's available like better video recording, full-frame, own brand lenses that give me what leave me questioning my loyalties. I still want to stay with the Pentax brand........That said.......Unless I can see that there is more coming from Pentax (at the early stage that I am at) within the Photography world would it not make sense to jump ship now before I've bought more and more equipment? The K-3 is a leap forwards and certainly shows that Pentax is developing what they have, but I still think we have a right to know whether things are moving in a direction that this "Pentax Full Frame" thread appears to want to go. So I ask two questions: 1. Is a Full-Frame Camera actually in development? 2. Is Pentax developing more lenses to cater or compete with there competitions third party lenses? If no lenses are in development for the current sensors then I would have thought this suggests that Pentax is developing a Full-Frame and shifting there lens development to cater for a new breed of Pentax DSLR. All this has started as I have spent the day trying to find good glass in the 10-24mm (16-35mm FF) range. Third party lenses can do this but the reviews, don't exactly endear me to spend the money on something that so many have declared as "not very good". This is a little rant from me, which I must apologies. However I'm frustrated as so many other brands give me what I want, yet the brand I like so much appears to refuse to even acknowledge that the consumer wants something they don't appear too keen to put out in the public domain. Maybe it for fear that aliens will steal it who knows. Either way all comments are welcome :-)

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09-01-2014, 01:18 PM - 4 Likes	#2
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	Have you tried the DA 15 limited? Or the DA 12-24? Both would be the obvious choices in your situation. As to whether you stay or go is up to you. Is your gear holding you back? If so, you probably should look elsewhere. I am sure Pentax has a lot of things under development, but life is too short to wait on a mythical full frame Pentax -- even if it was released in a couple of months, the wide angle zoom you crave is not likely to be released for a year or two afterward and you would end up falling back on third party support. Pentax has always had odd lenses like the FA limiteds, the DA limiteds -- lenses that are slower than the competition and different focal lengths. I wouldn't expect Pentax to turn into Nikon or Canon and release similar lenses any time soon. (some DA 15 shots).

09-01-2014, 01:22 PM - 1 Like	#3
OrangeKx Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Vancouver, WA Photos: Gallery Posts: 817	I say if you want FF then quit Pentax now and go buy what works for you. In the time you wait for a Pentax FF you could have years of shooting another brands FF. If Pentax comes out with a FF in two years (around the same time hell freezes over) and it's the best FF camera ever then you can move to a newer FF with Pentax on the front and Ricoh on the back.

09-01-2014, 01:23 PM - 2 Likes	#4
Miguel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Near Seattle Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,743	Originally posted by mdshooting I am an avid Pentaxian and loyal to remain with the Pentax brand Originally posted by mdshooting yet the brand I like so much appears to refuse to even acknowledge that the consumer wants something they don't appear too keen to put out in the public domain. I'd recommend not attaching any brand of consumer product such as a camera to personal feelings that generate loyalty. It's just stuff that generates business profits for other people--and if you are lucky maybe yourself. If Pentax doesn't have what you need, there are plenty of other cameras and lenses that should be able to come closer. All it takes is money and a little time to master a new learning curve. I've switched most of my shooting over to Canon during the past five years, and my personal life where loyalty and emotions matter, hasn't really changed as a consequence. My photographic life has improved but only a certain proportion of that is brand and equipment related; a lot of that simply has to do with my skills still growing and my learning a few new tricks after shooting for 40 years. M

09-01-2014, 01:28 PM	#5
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by mdshooting Pentax refuses to even keep us updated on how this is evolving. Would it not be better to say that they are not currently working on a Full-Frame Camera? I don't think they have fully committed to the idea of producing a FF DSLR, so they don't really can't make a statement one way or the other. There are trade-offs with every brand currently on the market, and the market is evolving at a pretty fast pace. The Mirrorless Revolution Sony is selling more mirrorless full-frame bodies than ff DSLR bodies. By the time Pentax develops a FF body and revamps the lens line-up how big will the market be for a FF DSLR? What type of photography are you working on and how does a FF body help you or improve the quality of your work? Don't be a brand loyalist. Find the company that makes the equipment that meets your needs and get back to taking pictures.

09-01-2014, 01:31 PM	#6
mdshooting New Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 20 Original Poster	The DA 15 looks superb, I've considered that, the DA 14mm f2.8 (if I can find one) and the 12-24 and I'm probably going to go for the 12-24 as I can move around the focal length. If I'm honest the Full-Frame isn't the only reason I'm so interested in moving to other brands. The video capability of the Canon 5d mark iii for instance has an extra allure and pull to it. Canon do a 16-35mm f2.8 for a similar price to the Pentax 12-24 (think it approx £50 more). Other than the obvious cost of a new Full-Frame body it gives me part of the wider end I'm looking for plus full-frame but the K-3 gives me just as good a quality but less glass. Not that I think that makes as much sense as it sounded in my head.

09-01-2014, 01:31 PM	#7
easyreeder Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Photos: Albums Posts: 128	Originally posted by mdshooting As I am getting more and more in to photography. I find myself wanting more. As we are all aware, more means, more money! I am an avid Pentaxian and loyal to remain with the Pentax brand, however if I remove money from the conversation (I wish I could do this!!!!) what is Pentax doing to keep me as a customer? I want a Full-Frame Camera! Yet Pentax refuses to even keep us updated on how this is evolving. Would it not be better to say that they are not currently working on a Full-Frame Camera? No of course it wouldn't, to do this would encourage those waiting around to bleed off to disparate brands and get what they have wanted for sometime. Equally if they are working on something, to keep quiet only add's to frustration within the Pentax world. I look for new gear to do things I can't presently do and find myself being tempted by other brands who offer much more, admittedly at more cost. Despite the cost, the offering's available like better video recording, full-frame, own brand lenses that give me what leave me questioning my loyalties. I still want to stay with the Pentax brand........That said.......Unless I can see that there is more coming from Pentax (at the early stage that I am at) within the Photography world would it not make sense to jump ship now before I've bought more and more equipment? The K-3 is a leap forwards and certainly shows that Pentax is developing what they have, but I still think we have a right to know whether things are moving in a direction that this "Pentax Full Frame" thread appears to want to go. So I ask two questions: 1. Is a Full-Frame Camera actually in development? 2. Is Pentax developing more lenses to cater or compete with there competitions third party lenses? If no lenses are in development for the current sensors then I would have thought this suggests that Pentax is developing a Full-Frame and shifting there lens development to cater for a new breed of Pentax DSLR. All this has started as I have spent the day trying to find good glass in the 10-24mm (16-35mm FF) range. Third party lenses can do this but the reviews, don't exactly endear me to spend the money on something that so many have declared as "not very good". This is a little rant from me, which I must apologies. However I'm frustrated as so many other brands give me what I want, yet the brand I like so much appears to refuse to even acknowledge that the consumer wants something they don't appear too keen to put out in the public domain. Maybe it for fear that aliens will steal it who knows. Either way all comments are welcome :-) If the end of the year doesn't bring an announcement than pleases you, look seriously at the new crop of ffs that are coming from other companies. If you shoot manual, no problem, buy some adapters. You and I can hit B&H together, haha.

09-01-2014, 01:31 PM - 1 Like	#8
jimr-pdx Pentaxian Join Date: May 2010 Location: now 1 hour north of PDX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,897	Regardless of what we say, happiness on this front is entirely up to you. How will you feel when they do announce a FF cam, right after you've sold your dearest K-mount gear? That's going to happen to someone, and it could be you. How will your images change when you use FF with K or another? I don't think I'm the only one amazed when I hear that something can't be done with a Pentax dSLR; it it's video though you should look elsewhere as that has not been a Pentax priority. As to FF lenses, I found it interesting that the roadmap update last spring includes two lenses that were almost immediately announced by Tokina (e.g. 70-200 f/4), so I'd expect a licence deal when FF arrives.

09-01-2014, 01:34 PM	#9
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Life is too short to worry about such things. If you need a full frame camera best you leave and get what you need. The image is what is important, not the camera or lenses. I certainly have not found anything I want to do that cannot be done on Pentax gear, but if I get to the point that there is then I'll change to another brand. I am not sure anymore what Pentax target market is. But if you are not, then you should find what makes you happy.

09-01-2014, 01:42 PM	#10
mdshooting New Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 20 Original Poster	Firstly....thanks everyone. Primarily I use my Pentax K-5 and K-3 for landscape, the K-3 is in my opinion almost as good as FF. The video and some of the lens limitations is possibly my biggest reason for looking elsewhere. The 5d Mark iii was used to record some US TV and parts of movies and the new Mark iv looks to have 4k capability. The video is something I'd like to move into. The K-3 was an improvement from the my K-5 but it still doesn't hit like other brands seem too. Thanks again everyone, your comments are really appreciated, I feel torn between two tree's the old faithful and the new stronger contenders!

09-01-2014, 01:43 PM	#11
c.a.m Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ottawa, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,188	Originally posted by mdshooting I want a Full-Frame Camera! mdshooting, You've outlined a recurring quandary - you'd like to use a FF camera system, but there is none in the Ricoh/Pentax lineup or on the Ricoh 'roadmap'. Your main requirement clearly seems to be full-frame, and there are options in the marketplace that would meet that requirement. My suggestion would be to look into another brand and acquire what you want. In my family, we are sort of facing a similar question concerning a replacement for our aging family automobile - we want certain features/specs, but our 'preferred' brand doesn't meet all of them. Do we wait for another year or two or three, hoping that they introduce a model that would meet all of our requirements, or should we purchase another brand now? Decision, decisions! Good luck with whatever direction you take! - Craig

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09-01-2014, 01:45 PM	#12
patrick9 Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Murfreesboro Tennessee Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,458	I may need to rethink the DA15 It wasn't in a priority list I may need to add it to that list

09-01-2014, 01:48 PM	#13
c.a.m Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ottawa, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,188	Originally posted by patrick9 I may need to rethink the DA15 It wasn't in a priority list I may need to add it to that list (Slight thread diversion: Patrick, you need to go and read through the entire 'mind-control lens club' thread right now...)

09-01-2014, 01:54 PM	#14
mdshooting New Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 20 Original Poster	I think I might get a few rentals of other brands to find out what suits me first before taking the leap.....or.....jump!

09-01-2014, 02:00 PM	#15
DeadJohn Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New York Posts: 4,833	Originally posted by mdshooting I want a Full-Frame Camera! ... I look for new gear to do things I can't presently do and find myself being tempted by other brands who offer much more ... better video recording, full-frame, own brand lenses ... All this has started as I have spent the day trying to find good glass in the 10-24mm (16-35mm FF) range ... Third party lenses can do this but the reviews, don't exactly endear me to spend the money on something that so many have declared as "not very good". (sorry for all the excerpting, I'm just doing it as a reminder of the context of the original post.) Video: I use video so rarely that I don't know how different brands compare for video. Full frame: What do you think a larger sensor will provide that you can't get from the K-3? I ask because different people mean different things when they say they need full frame. Own brand lenses in 10-24mm (16-35mm FF) range: The Pentax DA15 and DA21 are good lenses. What about those lenses don't meet your needs? I'm asking because we might be able to recommend alternatives that are better for you.