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09-20-2014, 02:51 AM   #196
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QuoteOriginally posted by easyreeder Quote
When the K3 came out, there was no argument. Now, there are maybe a half dozen cameras vying for the 1 grand slot.



I was agreeing with you. The still photography in the K3 is incredibly reliable. As I said before, I don't feel certain about the brand. For example: Pentax France is releasing information? All this talk about something new, etc. I'm all for it, but I wish they'd be more straightforward about, ha, for example, the revision to the k mount.
I think they are being as straightforward as they can be under the circumstances. They have a full frame camera under development. Maybe they are trialing different sensors. Full specs are not available at this point. Date of release is as yet uncertain. All they can say is that it is coming.

At the same time, I think companies like Olympus and Panasonic could be in worse shape when it comes to camera manufacture than Pentax is. Ricoh is a decent sized company and it seems clear that they are committed to continuing camera manufacture with Q, 645, and K as the camera mounts. The interview specifically said that for the time being they see Q as the mirrorless option that they will offer. They think that mirrorless equates to small and having a smaller sensor size lets them make small lenses to go with it. I'm not saying they're are right (although it has sold well in Asia), but that's the company line and they seem to be sticking with it.

The K mount doesn't need a revision any more than the F mount needs revision. It is fine as a modern mount on an SLR.

09-20-2014, 07:45 AM   #197
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Why?
I've explained plenty.

QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
assume that was meant as a joke?
Ricoh's real agenda is the return of the pin.
09-20-2014, 09:15 AM   #198
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QuoteOriginally posted by easyreeder Quote
I've explained plenty.
Not really. You said:
QuoteQuote:
But I don't trust the brand.
and
QuoteQuote:
As I said before, I don't feel certain about the brand.
I was just asking why you felt that way. Trying to understand your point of view. Which seems to be 180 degrees from mine so I am curious what I am missing. In 2010 - 2011 I would agree with you, dark days. But now? Seems to me the 'brand' is as stable and the future as bright for Pentax as it has been since the 1980's.

If you know something or have a real reason for "I don't trust the brand" I would be interested in hearing it. If all you want to do is spread FUD that's fine too it's an open forum.
09-20-2014, 09:43 AM   #199
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
was just asking why you felt that way.
If you look over the thread, you'll see I did explain. But Jatrax you're the man, so once again ...

I do feel like Pentax is pretty limited right now, but I'm also feeling like a die hard. I love the k mount glass, and I'm going to keep using it wherever I am. And if there's a great Pentax with the specs I want, I'll buy it. Hmm, ok, uncertainty about the brand:

A) The K3 is a terrific camera, but there was plenty to improve upon, and plenty of room for much more on the K mount than we got at Photokina. The continuous rumors of FF are now irksome, and if they had any real weight they'd be coming out of Japan, not Russia or France. There's something really sleazy about stringing people along. On the other hand, I think it's quite possible that Pentax just doesn't know what it's going to do, and that's not exactly inspiring my brand confidence either. The limitations of the K mount as is may be a large part of the problem—the reason for no af or af tracking in video, for instance, and I suspect (i could be 100% wrong) that we'll have to see some change to the K mount to move forward. (Look what's happening to the A mount, for example. The truth is: even on the k mount the PK manual lenses require an adapter to use the aperture ring, which makes a great deal of K mount glass exactly as usable in another brand. And if, for example, you wanted to speed boost a lens, you would have to employ a body from another brand. So why not do what they need to for a technological update and get it over with?) It may be that the future of Pentax is in the 645, or somewhere else, or in some slightly different something, whatever. That's cool, but if that's the case these ff rumors are disingenuous.

B) The sensor is from Sony and the processor is from Fuji. Self reliance, individuation is part of brand identity, and I worry about the dependence, in terms of how long it takes to develop products and what products are ultimately offered. In short, I fear that Pentax (Pentax/Ricoh), isn't completely in control of its own product line.

09-20-2014, 10:12 AM - 1 Like   #200
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QuoteOriginally posted by easyreeder Quote
If you look over the thread, you'll see I did explain. But Jatrax you're the man, so once again ...

I do feel like Pentax is pretty limited right now, but I'm also feeling like a die hard. I love the k mount glass, and I'm going to keep using it wherever I am. And if there's a great Pentax with the specs I want, I'll buy it. Hmm, ok, uncertainty about the brand:

A) The K3 is a terrific camera, but there was plenty to improve upon, and plenty of room for much more on the K mount than we got at Photokina. The continuous rumors of FF are now irksome, and if they had any real weight they'd be coming out of Japan, not Russia or France. There's something really sleazy about stringing people along. On the other hand, I think it's quite possible that Pentax just doesn't know what it's going to do, and that's not exactly inspiring my brand confidence either. The limitations of the K mount as is may be a large part of the problem—the reason for no af or af tracking in video, for instance, and I suspect (i could be 100% wrong) that we'll have to see some change to the K mount to move forward. (Look what's happening to the A mount, for example. The truth is: even on the k mount the PK manual lenses require an adapter to use the aperture ring, which makes a great deal of K mount glass exactly as usable in another brand. And if, for example, you wanted to speed boost a lens, you would have to employ a body from another brand. So why not do what they need to for a technological update and get it over with?) It may be that the future of Pentax is in the 645, or somewhere else, or in some slightly different something, whatever. That's cool, but if that's the case these ff rumors are disingenuous.

B) The sensor is from Sony and the processor is from Fuji. Self reliance, individuation is part of brand identity, and I worry about the dependence, in terms of how long it takes to develop products and what products are ultimately offered. In short, I fear that Pentax (Pentax/Ricoh), isn't completely in control of its own product line.
I guess I would question B, in particular. I know Canon sources their own sensors and image processor, but what about Nikon? Does the fact that they use Aptima, Toshiba and Sony for their sensors mean that they are unstable? The reality is that these companies are dependent on other companies to a lesser or greater extent. Nikon tends to be pretty close lipped about what they source and what they don't -- mostly claiming that they produce their own sensors, when it is clear that they have some to do with the design, but aren't producing the majority of sensors in their cameras. Even Expeed is probably based on Fujitsu's image processor.

Oh well, trust, don't trust. It doesn't really matter -- we are mostly talking in guesses, which can be negative or positive, depending on your perspective.
09-20-2014, 10:20 AM   #201
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
We are mostly talking in guesses, which can be negative or positive, depending on your perspective.
Hehe, yes! You're right of course about Nikon, but Sony, Samsung, Canon and Fuji are to varying degrees making their own sensors and/or processors.
09-20-2014, 10:22 AM   #202
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K mount has nothing to do with video tracking.

Ricoh had a lot to do from the moment they bought Pentax. Fill the gap in engineers core left by Hoya, especially opticians, integrate two companies, build new production facilities, and launch new products. All this things can't be done very quickly. So, a delay is normal. Just think that Nikon need one year to launch a replacement for the faulty D600. And a new line of product need more years for development.
09-20-2014, 10:48 AM   #203
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
K mount has nothing to do with video tracking.

Ricoh had a lot to do from the moment they bought Pentax. Fill the gap in engineers core left by Hoya, especially opticians, integrate two companies, build new production facilities, and launch new products. All this things can't be done very quickly. So, a delay is normal. Just think that Nikon need one year to launch a replacement for the faulty D600. And a new line of product need more years for development.
We have seen written here that in some cases - maybe all cases - Ricoh pulled the existing Hoya/Pentax product, reworked it to their (higher?) standards and released when they could produce it. Examples are the 1.4x TC, K50 (from K-30), HD Limiteds (new coatings patent to replace SMC, new evaporators at $1MM per) and K-3. Of course 645Z and whatever lenses they've done and are in pipeline. One doesn't know about the DA20~40.

Many here have said Ricoh has done nothing, and they have been slow at doing that. Some have said they don't have confidence in Ricoh because they haven't done anything of their own yet.

Sheesh.

09-20-2014, 11:09 AM   #204
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QuoteOriginally posted by easyreeder Quote
The continuous rumors of FF are now irksome, and if they had any real weight they'd be coming out of Japan, not Russia or France.
QuoteOriginally posted by easyreeder Quote
There's something really sleazy about stringing people along.
QuoteOriginally posted by easyreeder Quote
That's cool, but if that's the case these ff rumors are disingenuous.
I think what is disingenuous is you blaming Ricoh for rumors. I can start a rumor that Nikon is bringing out a MF camera in 2015. There I just started a rumor. Now a year from now will you blame Nikon for not producing the rumored MF camera? Ricoh has delivered on everything they have promised. If you don't want to trust Ricoh that is your prerogative, but I honestly do not understand your reasoning. Perhaps I have this wrong but to summarize you do not trust Ricoh because a bunch of websites that derive revenue from advertising post rumors about a FF camera that no one in an official position has ever said was more than a possibility?
QuoteOriginally posted by easyreeder Quote
The truth is: even on the k mount the PK manual lenses require an adapter to use the aperture ring, which makes a great deal of K mount glass exactly as usable in another brand.
Really confused about this. Maybe just a senior moment, but what adapter do PK lenses require to use the aperture ring?
09-20-2014, 11:21 AM   #205
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Really confused about this.
Me too.
09-20-2014, 12:15 PM   #206
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Really confused about this. Maybe just a senior moment, but what adapter do PK lenses require to use the aperture ring?
You mean you have been using your PK lenses without an adapter?
09-20-2014, 02:42 PM   #207
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
You mean you have been using your PK lenses without an adapter?
Apparently. I feel so embarrassed......
09-20-2014, 05:15 PM   #208
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QuoteOriginally posted by easyreeder Quote

A) The K3 is a terrific camera, but there was plenty to improve upon, and plenty of room for much more on the K mount than we got at Photokina. The continuous rumors of FF are now irksome, and if they had any real weight they'd be coming out of Japan, not Russia or France. There's something really sleazy about stringing people along. On the other hand, I think it's quite possible that Pentax just doesn't know what it's going to do, and that's not exactly inspiring my brand confidence either. The limitations of the K mount as is may be a large part of the problem—the reason for no af or af tracking in video, for instance, and I suspect (i could be 100% wrong) that we'll have to see some change to the K mount to move forward. (Look what's happening to the A mount, for example. The truth is: even on the k mount the PK manual lenses require an adapter to use the aperture ring, which makes a great deal of K mount glass exactly as usable in another brand. And if, for example, you wanted to speed boost a lens, you would have to employ a body from another brand. So why not do what they need to for a technological update and get it over with?) It may be that the future of Pentax is in the 645, or somewhere else, or in some slightly different something, whatever. That's cool, but if that's the case these ff rumors are disingenuous.
^^ Fairly astute and spot-on IMO.


QuoteQuote:
B) The sensor is from Sony and the processor is from Fuji. Self reliance, individuation is part of brand identity, and I worry about the dependence, in terms of how long it takes to develop products and what products are ultimately offered. In short, I fear that Pentax (Pentax/Ricoh), isn't completely in control of its own product line.
But this doesn't leave them much more dependent than say Nikon, who rely very heavily on Sony sensors and Fujitsu ASICS.

.
09-20-2014, 05:24 PM   #209
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QuoteOriginally posted by easyreeder Quote
The truth is: even on the k mount the PK manual lenses require an adapter to use the aperture ring
Would you mind explaining that statement? I too am confused. Have I been practicing unsafe lens insertion for the last 35 years?
09-20-2014, 05:26 PM   #210
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He probably meant M42 - many lenses don't have an auto/manual switch, and those lenses need an adapter or else you can't get aperture control.

The "other" pentax mount.
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