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01-04-2015, 05:19 PM   #286
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FTF:
The truth is, RICOH as a whole is not a small company. Ricoh is a little bit bigger than Nikon.
Please stop talking about things, you don't know...
Nikons and Canons Hollywood product placements are an excuse for this kind of thinking...(and yeah, Canon is bigger than RICOH).
And to get to the point... Yes i also would like to see the FF in a kind of LX Style( LD ?) ... modularity is the word if you go further into the idea of the Pentax LX. But it has to be more solid than the Nikon-Retro body... (You really do not feel the price-tag when you take it in your hands... ??! - Yes i tried the DF in some store in vienna...)
And f... where is the vid-func in this thing? ou yes it is a still camera oh my gosh i am so elite. (*sarcasm off - now*)
But otherwise its a nice idea...

01-24-2015, 04:01 PM   #287
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QuoteQuote:
The real professional is broke.
What? You do realize why the 5dmk3 has held its value so well? Its the most popular camera used by pros. Wedding photography is very lucrative. Most pros earn a couple thousand per wedding shoot and i would hardly call that broke. Full frame is primarily aimed at pros. Pentax currently doesnt have much in the way of luck in breaking into the pro market. The fact that people are actually calling for pentax to not have a full frame camera is kind of sad to be honest. Its probably been said before but ff serves as a great upgrade path for those who cant afford medium format. I shot aps-c for 2 years before going to full frame. It's not like pentax would force you to buy it, if they were to introduce it. If you cant afford it, then just dont buy it? The fact that peopel are calling on pentax to not have more options (aka the option that all the big names offer now and have offered since oh you know 2010) really speaks to a hugely misguided sense of brand loyalty. Really, i used to be hugely obsessed with video games back in high school and i would see people all the time freaking out about x or y being added to a game and this is kind of what it seems kind of like. Like the op said, it seems to be mostly the old fanboys who have been shooting with pentax for decades who dont want to see the brand change and move forward..
01-24-2015, 06:07 PM   #288
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
What? You do realize why the 5dmk3 has held its value so well? Its the most popular camera used by pros. Wedding photography is very lucrative. Most pros earn a couple thousand per wedding shoot and i would hardly call that broke. Full frame is primarily aimed at pros. Pentax currently doesnt have much in the way of luck in breaking into the pro market. The fact that people are actually calling for pentax to not have a full frame camera is kind of sad to be honest. Its probably been said before but ff serves as a great upgrade path for those who cant afford medium format. I shot aps-c for 2 years before going to full frame. It's not like pentax would force you to buy it, if they were to introduce it. If you cant afford it, then just dont buy it? The fact that peopel are calling on pentax to not have more options (aka the option that all the big names offer now and have offered since oh you know 2010) really speaks to a hugely misguided sense of brand loyalty. Really, i used to be hugely obsessed with video games back in high school and i would see people all the time freaking out about x or y being added to a game and this is kind of what it seems kind of like. Like the op said, it seems to be mostly the old fanboys who have been shooting with pentax for decades who dont want to see the brand change and move forward..
Actually I think you misunderstand the sentiment completely. There was concern several years ago that the cost of developing a FF camera would bankrupt Pentax, or at least use up resources that might be better spent fixing the current APS-C cameras. This was prior to k-5II and certainly prior to k-3. That concern has carried on somewhat but has mostly died away as Ricoh has shown themselves quite capable of developing and improving things, though perhaps slower than we would like. Keep in mind this thread is itself almost 18 months old and was a response to an even older thread.

And the "old fanboys" are not the ones decrying change, they mostly want FF now so they can use their old K-mount glass "the way it was intended". The opposition was in response to their strident demands of FF now. And it was never to my recollection a vote against change or even FF, only that other things needed fixed first and a concern that a FF camera from Pentax might fail and derail Pentax completely.

And in any case it is all a moot point as the FF will be announced soon along with a complete FF ecosystem.
01-24-2015, 07:10 PM   #289
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I'm almost old. But I'm not a fanboy, (neither a fake one) and I think that Pentax must move forward. To FF and pro. Frankly, I can't understand those who says that Pentax must stay on APS-C, like if they will make FF, they also cease making APS-C. Nonsense. Sometime I believe that those who disprove the idea of a Pentax FF are not friends at all. But what did I know.

I've read a lot of post about why Pentax must not do FF, and I never find a valid argument. Only suppositions about market, and personal preference dressed in all kinds of assumptions about future. Of course, everyone is entitled to an opinion, and this is mine. Pentax must go for pro, must do FF, if he wants to conquer the entry level market for any kind of camera, and not only.

Soon, 4K will be a standard for TV sets in almost every house, and for computers displays and monitors. And at that time, pictures taken with a smartphone will begin to show the optical limitation of those very small lenses. So fewer and fewer users will want to share scrappy pictures, and in three or four years, the smartphone-generation will begin to look for quality cameras with good optics.


Last edited by JimmyDranox; 01-24-2015 at 07:15 PM.
01-24-2015, 07:25 PM   #290
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The biggest fear that newer folks have is that Pentax would abandon APS-C, like Nikon, and sink all of their eggs into the full frame basket. Full frame isn't and won't be for every one. There are plenty of people for whom APS-C or, micro four thirds is more than enough and who appreciate the savings in size you can get with a crop sensor.

My guess is that this year is the year for Pentax to release full frame. I just wonder (other than SR on the sensor) how they could differentiate themselves from the whole pack of full frame options that is currently on the market. Beats me. Between Sony, Nikon and Canon there doesn't seem to be much niche left for Pentax to carve out for themselves.
01-24-2015, 08:16 PM   #291
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Pentax would abandon APS-C, like Nikon
??? Last time I looked, Nikon still have a complete line-up of APS-C bodies, and are still selling more APS-C cameras than full-frames.

---------- Post added 2015-01-25 at 02:18 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
how they could differentiate themselves from the whole pack of full frame options that is currently on the market
All they need is K-mount, good Pentax design, ergonomics and performance, and the Pentax brand name. That will be all the differentiation they need.
01-24-2015, 10:38 PM   #292
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
All they need is K-mount, good Pentax design, ergonomics and performance, and the Pentax brand name. That will be all the differentiation they need.
That'll convince the believers and a few others besides, but cement the distant 3rd place position they currently hold among dslr manufacturers. I sure hope they have another ace up their sleeve to convince the rest of the world.
01-25-2015, 03:54 AM   #293
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
??? Last time I looked, Nikon still have a complete line-up of APS-C bodies, and are still selling more APS-C cameras than full-frames.

---------- Post added 2015-01-25 at 02:18 PM ----------



All they need is K-mount, good Pentax design, ergonomics and performance, and the Pentax brand name. That will be all the differentiation they need.
You have not read Thom Hogan's blog. He is convinced that Nikon has a relatively cursory line up of APS-C lenses and has not released a D400 (pro specified crop camera), purely because Nikon is afraid that it would cut into full frame sales. He even hailed the K3 as the D400 that Nikon was afraid to make.

In the end, Pentax's APS-C lens line up is pretty filled out and as long as they continue to make those lenses and make APS-C flagships, even if they have full frame cameras, it won't effect folks who are pretty invested in the crop side of things.

01-25-2015, 04:10 AM   #294
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QuoteOriginally posted by eyeswideshut Quote
That'll convince the believers and a few others besides, but cement the distant 3rd place position they currently hold among dslr manufacturers. I sure hope they have another ace up their sleeve to convince the rest of the world.
My guess is that formats are not the main thing to get right over the next few years. It's everything else: software, mobile, workflow, video, apps, sensor developments, mirrorless technology, sales and marketing taken in to company websites as B&M continues to decline, easy linking to other media on which to "print" your images and so forth. Companies which do this well be producing things that the broad middle of the market wants to buy, because those things fit in with how people live now. Formats are neither here nor there by comparison, and these challenges are far more formidable than dropping an FF sensor into a K3 Mk II. I'd take an APS-C done right in this regard over a big old FF "dumb box" any day.
01-25-2015, 05:19 AM   #295
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
My guess is that this year is the year for Pentax to release full frame. I just wonder (other than SR on the sensor) how they could differentiate themselves from the whole pack of full frame options that is currently on the market. Beats me. Between Sony, Nikon and Canon there doesn't seem to be much niche left for Pentax to carve out for themselves.
Maybe K-mount is a niche in itself.
01-25-2015, 05:43 AM   #296
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Maybe K-mount is a niche in itself.
If Pentax released a D810 in a k mount for 100 dollars less than Nikon sells for it would flop. There either needs to be glass or features that set it apart and with Nikons glass line up it is hard to imagine Pentax having something they don't already have. Maybe sensor shift and all that can be done with that other than SR is all that Pentax would need.
01-25-2015, 12:40 PM   #297
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
It's everything else: software, mobile, workflow, video, apps, sensor developments, mirrorless technology, sales and marketing taken in to company websites as B&M continues to decline, easy linking to other media on which to "print" your images and so forth.
+1 it is no longer enough to make a good camera, you need the whole eco-system from glass to tethering to social media to image storage. Ricoh cloud storage? Shoot and press a button and the image goes into your 'Ricoh-Box' for access from your PC, phone, FB account whatever.
QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Maybe K-mount is a niche in itself.
It is. But is it enough of a niche to sustain production? Younger people have no idea what k-mount is.
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
All they need is K-mount, good Pentax design, ergonomics and performance, and the Pentax brand name. That will be all the differentiation they need.
I do think this is a good start. Pentax has survived so far mostly on ergonomics and value. Good glass in some cases but in others not so much. And the sensors are the same as Nikon so what's the difference there? Honestly, considering the marketing (at least in the USA) I am astonished they are still around, so they must be doing something right.


If we are talking FF then I think it is highly important that the launch NOT be a camera and kit lens. That is a FAIL. And I think that is why it is taking so long.

The launch will have FF with GPS, WiFi and USB tethering. Plus 24-70, 70-200, 100-400, DFA 31, DFA 43, DFA 77, maybe an UWA too, not sure on that. Well I hope it will...........
01-25-2015, 01:17 PM   #298
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
DFA 31, DFA 43, DFA 77
Maybe they also need to clear the inventory of the SMC versions, for which a batch run ended 12/2012. Note the recent sale prices for the FA31 and FA77.
01-25-2015, 01:59 PM   #299
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Maybe they also need to clear the inventory of the SMC versions, for which a batch run ended 12/2012. Note the recent sale prices for the FA31 and FA77.
Yep, FA Limiteds have had several 'sales' which one would assume would be to clear old inventory at both the Ricoh and retailer level in order to allow the newer versions some shelf space. Since they already updated the APS-C versions I would be shocked if the 24x36 versions where not also updated along with the new FF line. But I suspect the pricing on them will make current Limited pricing look cheap.

Oh, I guess I should have said DFA HD Limited
01-25-2015, 03:40 PM   #300
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QuoteOriginally posted by eyeswideshut Quote
cement the distant 3rd place position they currently hold among dslr manufacturers. I sure hope they have another ace up their sleeve to convince the rest of the world.
Why judge Pentax a failure just because it is 3rd place. A brand or product doesn't have to be number 1 and master of the universe to be judged a success. Even today a solid (improving marketshare, good cameras, profitable production) 3rd place in a big, very mature and crowded marketplace is doing OK. They could do many things better, of course, but they have a good base to build on as they grow their lineup into FF.
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