[normhead]

Fixation (psychology), the state in which an individual becomes obsessed with an attachment to another human, an animal, or an inanimate object

Or in this case, an object that doesn't even exist. How sick is that? These threads take fixation to a whole new level.

[jsherman999]

I don't understand this scenario.

That's because I swapped the FLs, sorry. Should read:

K3: 35mm f/2.8 1/50s ISO1200
A7s: 50mm f/4 1/100s ISO 3600

Also as DxOMark's numbers should be read on the curve and not necessarily on the base ISO score on the front page (depending on where you plan to shoot in the ISO range,) there may only be closer to 1 or 1.5 stops, so you can adjust ISO, shutter speed and f-stop accordingly to get you the desired output. My quick example was just meant to show how larger sensors give you more headroom in these parameters, more options.

---------- Post added 09-16-14 at 08:07 AM ----------

Or in this case, an object that doesn't even exist. How sick is that? These threads take fixation to a whole new level.

Where does that leave the folks who are fixated on the folks who they think are fixated on equipment?

.

[monochrome]

9 months.

D810 competitor or fast (dual processor, dual bus, from 645Z) MILC. Don't be sellin' your good lenses just yet.


Surprise!

Maybe . . . . .

It's Coming in 2015.

[Winder]

#19. As you indicated in previous interviews, are you still considering expanding the K-mount camera system to use sensors larger than APS-C?
This is a question that we cannot disclose, but as I said in the 645Z questions, we think that the 645Z is one of our answers toward the high-end of customers.

At the same time, we know that the full-frame market is growing. So, our engineers are engaged in the development of full-frames, but with the question of when to launch/release the product, we will want to carefully study the market trend.

[normhead]

That sounds suspiciously like, "We'll release it as soon as the engineers have all the technical problems solved." They aren't going to sit on a finished camera waiting for marketing to decide when the best time to release it is. They will have put an investment into building this camera, they'll want their money back. That's just corporate cover, if it comes out later rather than sooner it will be because engineering bit off more than they could chew and it took longer than estimated to make it all work, not because marketing is waiting for some kind of market driven opportunity. You can be sure Pentax is never going to admit that happened, there were engineering problems. and releasing a Pentax Full Frame would create it's own "marketing opportunity".

Pentax cameras usually come out with firmware that is replaced within days of the camera hitting the shelves. They clearly are waiting released before the software is finished, and quickly updated. I see no evidence at all they are held back by marketing.

[JimmyDranox]

Maybe they think that launching a camera in a crowded event as Photokina, where the attention is diverted to a lot of new products, is not as good that, let's say, releasing it in a middle of an uneventful season, when everyone's eye will stare at the new Pentax FF.

[calsan]

K3: 35mm f/2.8 1/50s ISO1200
A7s: 50mm f/4 1/100s ISO 3600

Should read
K3: 35mm f/2.8 1/50s ISO1200
A7s: 50mm f/4 1/50s ISO 3600
We have to half the aperture on the FF to match the APS depth of field.

Then you either double shutter speed (to 1/25) on the FF to get the same exposure or increase the ISO one stop.
You halved the shutter speed to 1/100 AND halved the Aperture AND doubled the ISO. So the photo would be underexposed.

Basically, this just proves my point: the advantage of FF is ONLY that you can buy lenses with more aperture, if it's a situation where more aperture and less depth of field is OK.
On FF you have 50mm 1.4, whereas on APS, there's no 35mm F1.0. That's it. FF advantage is faster glass at normal focal lengths. So FF is not about the sensor, it's about the larger aperture lenses that are available.
That, and more megapixels.

[easyreeder]

Basically, this just proves my point: the advantage of FF is ONLY that you can buy lenses with more aperture, if it's a situation where more aperture and less depth of field is OK.
On FF you have 50mm 1.4, whereas on APS, there's no 35mm F1.0. That's it. FF advantage is faster glass at normal focal lengths. So FF is not about the sensor, it's about the larger aperture lenses that are available.
That, and more megapixels.

And noise at a given ISO.

[calsan]

If you can get the same ISO - but as you see, stopping down is normally required to gain depth of field - as it's normally a trade off that we make to stop down and gain noise than risk missing focus. So FF performs better in tests, but the same in real life. The solution to this is to have better auto focus in FF, which we do see - but at a cost. FF autofocus system has to be twice as good as any APS autofocus system and four times better than the autofocus in MFT.

[easyreeder]

If you can get the same ISO - but as you see, stopping down is normally required to gain depth of field - as it's normally a trade off that we make to stop down and gain noise than risk missing focus. So FF performs better in tests, but the same in real life. The solution to this is to have better auto focus in FF, which we do see - but at a cost. FF autofocus system has to be twice as good as any APS autofocus system and four times better than the autofocus in MFT.

Maybe, if the the subject is really close to you and you're shooting af. Also, in video, the af doesn't matter because with the k3 you're probably locking down or shooting manual. Oh, and of course, if you're shooting manual stills with the focus peaking you won't miss your focus, so you're not stopping down. And if we're talking about 5.6 or something to begin with, you're not stopping down. My k3 is perfect up to let's say 400, but when you're squaring the crop to come up with an equivalent ISO (I know, I know, it's extreme and approximate but that is the equation), your low light noise is much higher than ff. If, however, as you're talking about I think, you're shooting in daylight or any good light conditions, I agree, the ff gives no advantage that a stop or two wouldn't solve. I'm not a huge ff person at this point, I'd rather have 4k hahahahaha, but I've been shooting side by side with full frames and the one situation the K3 falls short is low light at somewhat higher ISOs. If it makes you feel any better, there's also a 7D that I've been shooting alongside and the K3 smokes it low light.

[calsan]

there's also a 7D that I've been shooting alongside and the K3 smokes it low light.

He he. I was surprised to see the K-3 smokes the 5dMkii in low light, when shooting alongside a friend. He was pretty bummed.

[Andi Lo]

He he. I was surprised to see the K-3 smokes the 5dMkii in low light, when shooting alongside a friend. He was pretty bummed.

5Dii is a rather old tech now, but it's amazing that K-3 smokes it in low light as it was the standard in wedding photography just a couple years ago.

[jsherman999]

If you can get the same ISO - but as you see, stopping down is normally required to gain depth of field - as it's normally a trade off that we make to stop down and gain noise than risk missing focus.

You're making the mistake of thinking that you often need to stop down to 'match' the DOF you would get with aps-c - and the fact is, you don't. It's actually rare that I need to stop down because my DOF is too shallow - happens, but rarely.

So FF performs better in tests, but the same in real life.

Actually it's been my experience that it's the opposite, often performs better in real-life scenarios - in delivering photos you really love - than the tests would suggest. All depends on what shooting parameters you deem important of course.

FF autofocus system has to be twice as good as any APS autofocus system and four times better than the autofocus in MFT.

You have a lot of stuff exactly backwards aps-c and especially m43 will show AF errors more at the same display sizes, because the resulting image is magnified more. And you actually need sharper lenses with aps-c and m43 to get the same perceived sharpness.

Also a side note - there is no Pentax camera that focuses as quickly and accurately as my D700 or D800. We should expect a slightly higher-margin Pentax FF to come close or match that performance, finally (hopefully.) That's good news for Pentaxians, believe me.

---------- Post added 09-17-14 at 08:51 PM ----------

5Dii is a rather old tech now, but it's amazing that K-3 smokes it in low light as it was the standard in wedding photography just a couple years ago.

Not according to DxOMark

---------- Post added 09-17-14 at 08:53 PM ----------

He he. I was surprised to see the K-3 smokes the 5dMkii in low light, when shooting alongside a friend. He was pretty bummed.

It doesn't though, unless you guys were using in-camera NR and you were using more than him (I know wedding photogs shoot jpeg a lot.)

Basically this has been measured, and even though the 5DII has an older Canon sensor it's still slightly better SNR than the K3.

[easyreeder]

It doesn't though, unless you guys were using in-camera NR and you were using more than him (I know wedding photogs shoot jpeg a lot.)

Basically this has been measured, and even though the 5DII has an older Canon sensor it's still slightly better SNR than the K3.

I've only compared the K3 to the 7D and the 5Diii, which is of the three hands down the best in terms of low light noise. On the 7D comparison, which may apply to the cited tests I'm not sure, the K3 has a darker look, less noise but with blacker blacks. In post, I found that the K3 gave me much more to work with than the 7D, which was brighter at the same ISO, but noisier and softer. One thing I'm sure of: the ISOs from the K3 to the 7D were not measured by the same ruler. There was more boost on the 7D, and the friend I was shooting with agreed. To match looks, he would either have to bring his ISO down, or bring mine up. Maybe someone who knows a little more about that could explain. And, ha, could say if it's just the 7D measure or that ISO applies to the 5dii as well.

Oh, I do use the in-camera NR.

[calsan]

I meant smoked the 5dmkii, as in: my photos are ALL in focus - whereas, you don't have a single shot in focus. Pentax K3 with siggy 17-70 (oldest version) vs 5DMkii with L24-105 f/4.
Tungsten lighting only. This used to kill the K7, but the K3 can focus under any lighting.

This is why I think it's more important to have the latest generation camera, than the largest sensor.