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09-20-2014, 03:19 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by Venturi Quote
I just have no faith that they'll bring anything but yet another predictable black box that goes ping to an already overwhelmingly crowded market. And even if they released a dozen lenses in 2015 to go along with a FF offering it still means re-investing in all new glass to adopt a system that will be completely untested.
A year or so ago the mantra was being the top dog in APS, and I thought "okay, let's see it." But then here comes the Q, which I still just don't get. The 645 program is a worthy niche endeavor, but costly.
And now they are going to turn 180 and jump into the FF game after the market has a 10 year lead? They will either be crushed or ignored. They couldn't even make the K-01 work as a product and that was a no-brainer for Pentax to pull off.

Pentax management needs a fundamental overhaul; they're chasing their tails. I lost all interest in re-investing $5K+ for a full-frame Pentax kit 2 years ago and won't be investing any more in APS either. I'll shoot what I have until it quits on me or my needs justify a system change.
If that offends the fanboi base, that's unfortunate but not my problem. I started shooting Pentax in 1982, and generally like all the gear I have, but the koolaid just isn't very sweet anymore.


There is nothing wrong with "another black box," as long as it has good specs. As to being ten years behind, once again that is no big deal. Making an APS-C SLR and making a full frame SLR aren't that different and clearly the K3 is specified pretty well in comparison to other top APS-C SLRs currently available.

If what Pentax offers and will offer in the future doesn't work for you, it is probably best to switch systems. Life is to short to waste shooting gear that is poor and frustrating to you.

I would just say as well, that Pentax doesn't have to sell huge numbers of a given camera to turn a profit, they just need to be honest with their projections, not over produce that camera and price it correctly.

09-20-2014, 05:46 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Most Pentax FF advocates want to use K-mount glass. Moving to 645Z doesn't help much in that regard.
I'm aware of that but from Pentax' perspective they're going to want to squeeze every drop out of their 645Z sales before releasing anything that could slow them down.
09-20-2014, 05:54 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
I'm aware of that but from Pentax' perspective they're going to want to squeeze every drop out of their 645Z sales before releasing anything that could slow them down.
FF really won't affect sales of 645Z. Ricoh's problem with 645Z is it is too successful. Squeezing drops isn't the problem - meeting demand is the problem, especially for modern lenses.
09-20-2014, 05:58 AM - 1 Like   #64
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With the number of people dumping their D800s for the 645z, I'm not sure that's even an issue. The Pentax FF is probably not going to be 51MP, clean of noise up to 6400 ISO and as much dynamic range as a 645z. For those wanting maximum resolution, FF has been surpassed. The only one's left complaining are those who want a Pentax FF. Everyone else at the lunch counter has been served.

09-20-2014, 06:02 AM - 1 Like   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Everyone else at the lunch counter has been served.
Well, I guess there's a $50,000 Chateaubriand option - then there's a $15,000 Prime Rib - then there's dozens of greasy burgers.

I'm not in the market for Chateaubriand, but I'm not salivating over a greasy burger either.

Last edited by monochrome; 09-20-2014 at 06:24 AM.
09-20-2014, 06:27 AM   #66
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Mmmmm, I fancy me a greasy burger.
09-20-2014, 07:01 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
I'm aware of that but from Pentax' perspective they're going to want to squeeze every drop out of their 645Z sales before releasing anything that could slow them down.
Can't blame Ricoh for not wanting to canibalize 645z sales before intro of a FF DSLR. That was and is Canon's strategy for as long as I can remember. Introduce stuff in stages, and slowly to squeez as much sales as you can out of every last product you have. I guess that is why they are doing well (relatively) financially.

Then again there are no pro zooms for a FF body anyway. And the fixed focal lens line up is not anywhere near complete either. So introduce FF body for what lens line up?! They have a lot of lens work to do before an FF body.
09-20-2014, 07:16 AM   #68
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For a Pentax FF, DA 35, FA 35-80, FA 50, Sigma 70 macro, Tamron 90 macro, Vivatar M 135, Sigma 70-300, A-400. That's just my cupboard. There's a pile of people on this forum who have way more than I do. There's lots out there to keep you shooting until the really high quality stuff comes out.

You guys are bad, now I want burger, but we have company coming and we're barbecuing burgers this evening... I can't have a burger for lunch and another one for dinner. But I'll be craving one all day. Grease.... yum....

09-20-2014, 07:27 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
With the number of people dumping their D800s for the 645z, I'm not sure that's even an issue. The Pentax FF is probably not going to be 51MP, clean of noise up to 6400 ISO and as much dynamic range as a 645z. For those wanting maximum resolution, FF has been surpassed. The only one's left complaining are those who want a Pentax FF. Everyone else at the lunch counter has been served.
The problem with buying a FF from Nikon or Canon, is that there is NO UPGRADE PATH

Seriously, an ad campaign by Pentax emphasizing their upgrade path of Medium format would be quite effective.
09-20-2014, 09:26 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
For a Pentax FF, DA 35, FA 35-80, FA 50, Sigma 70 macro, Tamron 90 macro, Vivatar M 135, Sigma 70-300, A-400. That's just my cupboard. There's a pile of people on this forum who have way more than I do.
True from a user viewpoint, but maybe not so good from Ricoh's view. I have a good set of FF primes and enough zooms to get started but that does not make Ricoh any money. I do not think they will release a FF until they have the whole eco-system to go with it. 4 zooms: 14-28, 24-70, 70-200, 150-400 and a good set of primes. They only get one chance to make an impact and no reason at all to rush into this. Meanwhile the factory is chugging along turning out 645 kit.

---------- Post added 09-20-14 at 09:27 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
The problem with buying a FF from Nikon or Canon, is that there is NO UPGRADE PATH
That is seriously funny!!
09-20-2014, 09:44 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I do not think they will release a FF until they have the whole eco-system to go with it. 4 zooms: 14-28, 24-70, 70-200, 150-400 and a good set of primes. They only get one chance to make an impact and no reason at all to rush into this. Meanwhile the factory is chugging along turning out 645 kit.
An alternative notion is they have the production lines allocated now, they can start with a HD DFA* 70~200/2.8 ED AL (IF) SDM (which is a new SDM) and a tele zoom, fairly quickly add a HD DFA* 24~70/2.8 ED AL (IF) SDM and a wide zoom. They'll rotate lenses, bodies and products across all four platforms, staying in the news constantly, building a reputation, recognition, presence and momentum - and eventually adding capacity.

All it will take is determination, constant work and time.
09-20-2014, 10:20 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
An alternative notion is they have the production lines allocated now, they can start with a HD DFA* 70~200/2.8 ED AL (IF) SDM (which is a new SDM) and a tele zoom, fairly quickly add a HD DFA* 24~70/2.8 ED AL (IF) SDM and a wide zoom. They'll rotate lenses, bodies and products across all four platforms, staying in the news constantly, building a reputation, recognition, presence and momentum - and eventually adding capacity.
Sure, I do not necessarily mean everything on the shelf at launch, but all pieces in play and announced. I can see a launch with 24-70 & 70-200 plus 31, 43 & 77. With followup at intervals with 14-28 and 150-400. Though since they showed the 150-400 I suspect that will be available at launch.

One thing to watch for would be shortages of DA*300, which would be re-launched as HD DFA*300. Juggling existing inventory to make this all come out right has to be a big part of the strategy and may be part of the reason for price adjustments / sales.
09-20-2014, 10:35 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Juggling existing inventory to make this all come out right has to be a big part of the strategy and may be part of the reason for price adjustments / sales.
I thought it was interesting 2013 summer that they ran K5II/IIs package sales with FA Limiteds. I imagine I missed my chance to own MIJ 31 and 77 at anything like reasonable prices. I hope I enjoy all this legacy stuff I have instead.

Better learn LR to eliminate PF, too.
09-20-2014, 01:34 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
With the number of people dumping their D800s for the 645z, I'm not sure that's even an issue. The Pentax FF is probably not going to be 51MP, clean of noise up to 6400 ISO and as much dynamic range as a 645z. For those wanting maximum resolution, FF has been surpassed. The only one's left complaining are those who want a Pentax FF. Everyone else at the lunch counter has been served.
Yes sir. I am with you 100%.
09-20-2014, 02:48 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I thought it was interesting 2013 summer that they ran K5II/IIs package sales with FA Limiteds. I imagine I missed my chance to own MIJ 31 and 77 at anything like reasonable prices. I hope I enjoy all this legacy stuff I have instead.
I suspect they had an internal timeline far earlier than we suspect (subject to revision of course) and have been using sales and price adjustments to move inventory based on that time line. HD coating and re-released DA Limiteds were timed, at least partly, to appear just as SMC DA Limited stock was running down. When existing stocks of SMC FA Limiteds run out we will see HD FA Limiteds or whatever they choose to call the FF lens line. And they are trying to time that with the internal release date for FF.
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