[normhead]

Norm, you can switch between FF and APS-C mode on the A7 cameras at will. How easy it is, I don't know since I don't have one, but at 36mp, an APSC frame would be about 10-12 MP (I did the math once, and forgot the answer). Since the switch will be reflected in the EVF, I'd think this would be an ideal way to manage your two-system approach, if you chose APSC and FF as your two systems.... you have them both in the same camera.

I would never give up the magnification you get from a 24 MP APS_c camera for what you get from a between a K20D and a K-5, which is what you're going to get from an FF in crop mode. My K-3 has made me very happy. The magnification for wildlife and macro is just not there currently in FF. I'm looking at FF strictly for resolution in landscape... and I'm starting to think looking at the images, maybe FF 36 Mp is really only useful for cityscapes and things like church interiors. Being a natural environment shooter what I notice is 36 MP in landscape seems to sometimes produce sharpening artifacts in web sized images, because of the amount you're reducing the images.... if you aren't printing the large prints, you may actually have your web and smaller images suffer. But hey, this is an on going investigation.

---------- Post added 09-19-14 at 11:44 AM ----------

Short?

But seriously, that novel was the best summation of the various strengths / weakness of different formats I have seen.

The biggest mistake made in format discussions is over simplification...

That being said, I did get a little carried away.

---

Last edited by normhead; 09-19-2014 at 10:03 AM.

[monochrome]

an APSC frame would be about 10-12 MP

K-3 = 24Mp APSc native, useful for tele and cropping.

[jcdoss]

Hmmm.... my math was wrong. The resulting APS-C file will be 15.4MP. I'm kinda selling myself on an a7R again.

The Sony A7r Crop Mode Saved me $2,800.00 | Leica BOSS

As as aside, I enjoyed reading about a Leicophile talking about the joy of saving money.

[normhead]

Hmmm.... my math was wrong. The resulting APS-C file will be 15.4MP. I'm kinda selling myself on an a7R again.

The Sony A7r Crop Mode Saved me $2,800.00 | Leica BOSS

As as aside, I enjoyed reading about a Leicophile talking about the joy of saving money.

Here's the thing I don't understand about crop mode... why not shoot the whole frame and do the crop in post?
The question is, what do you get in the area of the crop sensor?
16 MP to 24 MP and a 20% gain in resolution. Talking in Pentax terms, you're giving up resolution for convenience. Maybe it's worth it to you, maybe it's not.

The 16mp of crop mode in a 36mp crop sensor does not give you what a K-3 gives you. But if you're still shooting with a K-5 series, maybe it's good enough, if that meets your needs.

[MarkJerling]

So, here is the current results, in pie-chart form, after 161 votes. From a statistical perspective, this equates to 1 in 394 members voting to date. If cost is taken out of the equation, 77% of respondents would like FF.
Please feel free to encourage others to vote - I'd like to think that it would be good to get a higher number of people voting.

Image removed - see updated image 25/09/2014, further down the thread.

[raileconomics]

If you now ask a set of questions regarding willingness to pay Pentax/Ricoh have got very valuable information to inform their business plan for the FF. Most companies pay lots of money for such market research studies.

The reason I say this is that I've had the money sitting in a savings vehicle for the last four years. I've got photographer friends trying to persuade me to switch to Nikon, Canon and Sony. I took a look at the Sony models displayed in a local photo dealer and I was pleasantly surprised by the light weight and all the other FF features. I've not finally made up my mind but if P/R want my money they'd better hurry up. I don't need a definitive answer but if it is to be next year then some idea when next year - early or late.

You might need to tailor it to the various currency markets - Yen, $, Euro, £.

The suggestion at the end of the Photokina Interview was that they follow our Forums carefully. We've told them - we'll buy the FF and we should tell them the price we are willing to pay.

[DAKS]

I think the Nikon D750 is a good benchmark for price. I think it will sell at that price.
If P/R can come in a little under that, they would have winner, if they announce soon.
David

[jatrax]

Well if you believe in statistical analysis:
1 in 394 have voted with 124 saying yes. So 124*394 = 48,856 FF cameras sold!!! Come on Ricoh you have a gold mine here!!!!

Or another way to look at it: 161 people cared enough to even vote out of 63,504. And of those only 124 indicated they MIGHT buy if enough conditions were met. So .002 of members here MIGHT possibly be interested in a FF. Come on Ricoh you have 124 potential customers for FF, I cannot believe you are not rushing to get it out the door.

*Just a light hearted attempt to put some perspective on this.

[ElJamoquio]

To the OP - right now I would wait. I certainly think Pentax needs to come out with a FF, but they might've took too long to have me be an early adopter.

[MarkJerling]

If you now ask a set of questions regarding willingness to pay Pentax/Ricoh have got very valuable information to inform their business plan for the FF. Most companies pay lots of money for such market research studies.

The reason I say this is that I've had the money sitting in a savings vehicle for the last four years. I've got photographer friends trying to persuade me to switch to Nikon, Canon and Sony. I took a look at the Sony models displayed in a local photo dealer and I was pleasantly surprised by the light weight and all the other FF features. I've not finally made up my mind but if P/R want my money they'd better hurry up. I don't need a definitive answer but if it is to be next year then some idea when next year - early or late.

You might need to tailor it to the various currency markets - Yen, $, Euro, £.

The suggestion at the end of the Photokina Interview was that they follow our Forums carefully. We've told them - we'll buy the FF and we should tell them the price we are willing to pay.

You're absolutely correct. I think there's going to be a FF product and I believe it will be affordable. I will write Ricoh again, once I have a bit more data.

---------- Post added 09-24-14 at 01:31 PM ----------

Well if you believe in statistical analysis:
1 in 394 have voted with 124 saying yes. So 124*394 = 48,856 FF cameras sold!!! Come on Ricoh you have a gold mine here!!!!

Or another way to look at it: 161 people cared enough to even vote out of 63,504. And of those only 124 indicated they MIGHT buy if enough conditions were met. So .002 of members here MIGHT possibly be interested in a FF. Come on Ricoh you have 124 potential customers for FF, I cannot believe you are not rushing to get it out the door.

*Just a light hearted attempt to put some perspective on this.

Yes, if viewed that way, it could be an expensive camera!
Jokes aside: I am doing some statistical work on the numbers and so far it's looking closer to the 48,000 than the 124!

[beachgardener]

maybe if they put a HD coating on the revamped 31,43,77 that could be a plan too

[MarkJerling]

Right, after some maths, here are some results, based on a 1/342 sample of PF members (As of 24-09-2014) I'm hoping we'll get more respondents because, if we can get the numbers of respondents higher, we can get more accuracy in the figures.

Percentage of members who would buy if new FF is a Pentax branded camera: 13-27% of members. (Between 8,000 and 17,000 people)
Percentage of members who would buy if new FF is a Pentax and/or Ricoh branded camera: 17-32% of members. (Between 11,000 and 20,000 people)
Percentage of members who would buy on the rough specifications given: 9-23% of members. (Between 5,500 and 14,500 people)
Percentage of members who would buy at a D750 price point: 4-14% of members. (Between 2,000 and 8,500 people)

Percentage of members who would buy a FF Pentax / Pentax and/or Ricoh / at roughly D750 price point / on rough specs as given: 61-77% of members (Between 21,500 and 49,000 people)

All the normal qualifications about sample numbers, sample errors, etc apply. Having said that, I've used proven polling statistical methods to arrive at these figures. I'll carry out the workings again in a few weeks time, or rather if/when we have more respondents.

Very roughly therefore, from PF forums members only, there's potentially somewhere between $50-million and $110-million turnover for a Pentax/Ricoh FF product, based upon a variety of potential price points and numbers. I did not really want to place the last prediction because it's not statistically well derived from the other data. Anyway, I tend to look at stuff from a $$$ perspective!

[raileconomics]

This is a very powerful analysis. I hope the P/R Marketing Unit are reading this.

[LFLee]

So, here is the current results, in pie-chart form, after 161 votes. From a statistical perspective, this equates to 1 in 394 members voting to date. If cost is taken out of the equation, 77% of respondents would like FF.
Please feel free to encourage others to vote - I'd like to think that it would be good to get a higher number of people voting.

Yes, if it is a Pentax branded camera. 37 19.68%
Yes, if it is a Pentax and/or Ricoh branded camera. 46 24.47%
Yes, if it had the sort of specs you mention. 30 15.96%
Yes, but only if it's priced no higher than, for instance, the D750. 17 9.04%
No, I've bought a FF made by a different supplier. 7 3.72%
No, I don't need or want FF. 35 18.62%
No - I would like to, but I cannot afford to buy a new camera. 11 5.85%
Yes, but only if it's available in forty-seven color combinations.


The way I interpret this is only 18.62% who replied said they are not buying FF(No, I don't need or want FF. 18.62%).

[normhead]

Here's another question that should be asked. Given the success of the K-3 which further pushed the resolution obtainable on Pentax gear, how many would look at a full frame on their next regular upgrade cycle. My feeling is even people who aren't looking at an FF right now might choose to keep their K-3 and consider upgrading to an FF instead of another APS-c and some of those who consider it will actually go for the FF. I can see myself doing that, even though I see no need to upgrade right at the moment. So in a sense, more important to Pentax is not, who will buy one right now, or who will buy one over the first six months, but how many of us will give it a look, the next time we buy a camera. That is when the existing Pentax user base will really come into play. I guarantee, if Pentax releases an FF some of us who are quite committed to APS-c will give it a look, next purchase cycle and some of those people will buy full frames, regardless of what they might think right now.

The question then becomes, do Pentax headquarters know how to interpret the data from polls like this on the forum, in terms of what they might mean in actual sales of a product?