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09-17-2014, 12:09 PM   #1
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Why FF over MF?

I'm not getting all of the clamor and whining over Pentax not producing a FF camera. Pentax already makes a superior alternative in the 645D and 645Z, why not embrace it and the brands great DX bodies instead of moaning about a product that may or may not ever come to fruition because it just isn't necessary? The brand has a serious enthusiast/semi-pro camera in the K-3 and a truly affordable professional's MF system in the 645Z. Oh so there's a gap between one of the best DX camera's and the MF system... big whoop.

I swear people on here would complain about a cloudy day then bitch that the sun being too bright when it clears up. I'm not a big poster here at all but all of this drivel about Pentax being doomed by not following the herd (except for Fuji, which is doing just fine it seems with their DX cameras) is making me not want to read or participate on this site anymore, which sucks because there's some talented people here.

09-17-2014, 12:12 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by skierd Quote
nd the brands great DX bodies i
What are Pentax DX bodies, never heard of this series?
09-17-2014, 12:17 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by gmans Quote
what are pentax dx bodies, never heard of this series?
aps-c
09-17-2014, 12:25 PM   #4
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I have heard Nikon users uses the terms DX and FX for aps-c and full frame sensors; don't know if it is a generic term for APS-C crop sensor.

09-17-2014, 12:27 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Giklab Quote
aps-c
Thanks for the answer, thought that what was meant, DX is Nikon branding of there lenes is not? Not Pentax. To the OP, there is a lot of drivel as you call it, but why add to it and complain. Switch off to it, don't read it.
09-17-2014, 12:30 PM - 1 Like   #6
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Well, because the 645Z is 10000+lenses, while FF will hopefully be 1600-2600 and we already have lenses.
But I am quite alright with crop sensor for now, FF will have to do more than just "bigger sensor" to woo me
09-17-2014, 12:45 PM   #7
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To kiss: The price of the product. Next-> The technical possibilities (framerate) > The sheer endless availibilty of K-Mount and M42 lenses with the correct flange focal distance... > Cheap WR Kit Lenses that could be used in Crop-Mode. > The Handling.(Weight) > in-Body SR should not be a problem with a sensor 24x36 compared to a sensor that is 33x44 > If Ricoh goes really wild it could also be really Water Resistant... ;*) (Just joking, But if you take a look how Nikon implemented its Water Resistancy in the AW 1 you will realize that it would be possible)
09-17-2014, 12:57 PM   #8
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For advanced amateurs + some professional, MF is:
1. Still too expensive - body
2. Too expensive lenses (although some old MF lenses are still selling for good prices this will change).
3. Has a relatively limited range of lenses
4. Is a bulky / heavy system compared to FF
5. IQ is not that big step up from a FF (although there are other advantages too).

09-17-2014, 01:04 PM   #9
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Price is the main thing.

A 645Z new is 7k
A 645D 'NOS' is 4k+
A K3 new is 1k.

A FF that sat inbetween the high end APS-C @ 1k and the 645Z @ 7k is a massive gap to fill.
09-17-2014, 01:07 PM - 1 Like   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by skierd Quote
Why FF over MF?
Probably for the same reasons why 35mm film over 120 film. None. I have and do shoot both and each has specific use cases where they truly shine.


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09-17-2014, 01:12 PM   #11
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MF is less flexible.
09-17-2014, 01:24 PM   #12
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It is primarily a cost thing. Medium format is really expensive for bodies and lenses aren't cheap, even used. Medium format is still pretty limited as well -- awesome for studio and landscape work, but not exactly a camera you want to carry for a walk around.

On the other hand, full frame cameras can be pretty close in size to APS_C cameras and lens sizes are not particularly different (they use the same mount). Price is more expensive for full frame, but you can get a really nice full frame for 2000 and the lenses aren't that much higher priced than for crop cameras.
09-17-2014, 01:58 PM   #13
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Size and price, of course. Ff is in between apsc and medium format, with a larger sensor but still relative compactness.

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09-17-2014, 02:26 PM - 1 Like   #14
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Cost.

FF bodies can be had brand-new for $1700-1900. A new 645Z will run you $8500. Pretty big bump in price, even before we start looking at things like most people already owning a bunch of FF lenses but not owning 645 lenses.

I myself do have some 6x7 gear so lenses wouldn't be awful. It's just waaay expensive for the body. Yeah, cheaper if we look at used, or older models - but you can pick up a used 5D Classic for $500.

Autofocus performance isn't a factor for my shooting, I likely wouldn't be using it all that much, but that affects some people too. FF bodies generally have the best autofocus available with lenses that can keep up. Medium format typically is a couple generations behind due to slow product refresh cycles, lower max apertures on the lenses, and having to rack a significantly greater weight of glass.

If someone handed one to me I'd shoot it, it'd be great. In another decade or so when the prices have been pushed low enough, I'll probably pick one up.

---------- Post added 09-17-2014 at 05:48 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by skierd Quote
I swear people on here would complain about a cloudy day then bitch that the sun being too bright when it clears up. I'm not a big poster here at all but all of this drivel about Pentax being doomed by not following the herd (except for Fuji, which is doing just fine it seems with their DX cameras) is making me not want to read or participate on this site anymore, which sucks because there's some talented people here.
Fuji is doing just fine with their DX cameras because they're turning out exactly what photographers want - refined, feature-rich cameras and compact, fast, sharp lenses. And they're doing them by the dozen - Fuji released 15 lenses in 2 years. Most of them are "good" lenses - f/1.4, f/2, or f/2.8 lenses that perform well. They've been pushing out new bodies with new technologies and backfilling them into the older models with FREQUENT firmware updates. Doesn't make them a dime upfront - pays off big in terms of brand loyalty.

In comparison Pentax has put out only a handful of new lenses over that time period. One of them is a warmed-over kit lens that listed at close to $1000. And no, "same lens with different coating" does not count as a "new lens", red ring or no. Pentax's lineup is actually very thin in a lot of places - very few f/1.4 primes, or fast pro-grade superzooms like 24-70 or 24-105. There's an awful lot of 90s-era lenses lurking around, which just aren't sexy in this era of high element counts and exotic/aspheric glass. Overall just not a very exciting lineup with not a lot of room to move up.

Most of Pentax's bodies have just been marketing refreshes, not significant improvements in feature sets. Everyone has weather sealing nowadays, everyone has image stabilization, the M4/3 crowd also has the SR sensors, and image stabilization just doesn't matter when your bodies can shoot ISO 25,600. WR and in-body IS may have sold cameras a decade ago, they don't mean jack nowadays. And Pentax actively cripples their bodies' ability to utilize classic lenses so they can sell more product right now.

So in short: product innovation and brand loyalty. Fuji gets away with it because they've figured out what their base wants and gives it to them, and continually supports and improve their products to build brand loyalty. Pentax gives their base last year's model with LEDs on front, or last year's lenses with a new coating that improves transmission from 99.7% to 99.9%. They continually ignore what the base wants and even remove functionality.

Last edited by Paul MaudDib; 09-17-2014 at 03:30 PM.
09-17-2014, 03:15 PM - 1 Like   #15
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Habit.
By habit I meant the 36/24 format. Though whining is a close 2nd for habit here and whinging 3rd!
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