Originally posted by wombat2go Thank you for providing references that I requested
You're welcome!
Quote: In Post #1 of your reference was this summary:
Quote:
"This kind of rough calculation helpfully leads quickly to seeing that the micro four thirds camera normal lens, is going to have to be 25mm F/1.0 lens, to "gather the same amount of light" as a full-frame optic. Thus u43 lenses need to be "a lot faster" than their full frame counterparts to get you the same low-light capability."
I can respond, without tech and maths etc , as I am sure any photographer can, by advising that I have adaptors for my Pentax K lenses, typically 1:2.8 28mm etc, so I use them on my Olympus M4/3, my Pentax Ist-ds , my Pentax K-01, and my Pentax MX.
The experience is as it has been documented for 100 years and in dslrs too, that it is independent of format; the u43 lenses work by f/- and shutter the same as on any format, that is , for example "sunny 16" etc.
So in my opinion, the Post#1 in your reference is incorrect.
(I think you mean post #2? anyway...). When you say "work by f/- and shutter the same as on an any format" what you're talking about is
exposure - which isn't in question here. In terms of exposure, f/2.8 = f/2.8 = f/2.8, and it will give you the same light density and the same shutter speed on any format, P&S up to the Hubble. (When that poster said "gather the same amount of light" they were not talking about exposure.)
But with images of the same FOV and exposure on different formats, your f/2.8 gives you a different physical aperture (lens pupil diameter,) which alters the total light being captured by the sensor. Light density doesn't change, and it doesn't have to for the total light to be different.
Please see the Falk Lumo link I provided for another excellent overview on this. (
link)
Quote: You referred me to read a post from "The_Suede" from your referenced link, the summary at the end of that post was this:
Quote:
"Light gathering ability = (crop ratio) / (f-stop)
In the end that means that to collect as many photons per second from a certain scene, you need to change f/# with the same factor as you change the crop ratio."
...
I can respond that I disagree, and
again I am sure that any reasonable photographer would disagree with that conclusion. There is a plethora of references that would provide the correct way to set f/- on any format size of dslr, and it is demonstrated that it does not change by format size.
Here again I think you're responding to what you this is an assertion on exposure, not total light. Let's break down what he said further, maybe you can talk about specifically what you disagree with (and beyond this, I encourage you to take it up with him on dpreview, he's a nice fellow in general who will respond to questions )
He summarized, at the end of that post:
Originally posted by suede: The two basic parts are really:
f/# determines image plane exposure
exposure is "amount of light energy per area unit"
So there's exposure, which I know from what you wrote you agree with. Next:
Originally posted by suede: -So you get the light energy amount that your system "gathered" by:
(scene average luminance) / (f-stop)^2 * (sensor area) * (exposure time)
The preceding is what he derived the formula you had issue with, so is that ^^ wrong in your view?
I'll include the rest below so we don't necessarily have to go back to the thread for reference on this point:
Originally posted by suede: And from that you can get that the system "light gathering ability" when keeping scene average luminance and exposure time constant is:
Light gathering ability = (sensor area) / (f-stop)^2
Since (sensor area) is the square function of crop ratio this can be further simplified by doing a square root on both, and then you get:
Light gathering ability = (crop ratio) / (f-stop)
In the end that means that to collect as many photons per second from a certain scene, you need to change f/# with the same factor as you change the crop ratio.
And again that last sentence is not referring to exposure, it refers to (basically) needing to open up a lens more, match the physical aperture for that FOV, on a smaller sensor to gather as much total light.