Sony 50MP Full Frame Sensors Coming in 2015…

RonHendriks1966 · 10-21-2014, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by Paul MaudDib

Full-frame-6x7 or 6x9 sensors would be amazing.

My guess is that that will never ever happen.

noser · 10-25-2014, 09:43 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

My guess is that that will never ever happen.

And the world will never need more than 5 computers (IBM) or 640K (Bill Gates).

Things move on...

promacjoe · 10-25-2014, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by noser

And the world will never need more than 5 computers (IBM) or 640K (Bill Gates).

Things move on...

Also: when Intel was trying to figure out where to put their bios, someone remarked, Who could ever use more than one Megabyte of memory. Or so the story goes.

ElJamoquio · 10-25-2014, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by noser

And the world will never need more than 5 computers (IBM) or 640K (Bill Gates).

Things move on...

Bill Gates said he never said that.

dakight · 10-25-2014, 11:33 AM

When it comes to technology never say "never."

RonHendriks1966 · 10-25-2014, 11:35 AM

Maybe next decade....

Na Horuk · 10-25-2014, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

Bill Gates said he never said that.

Never say never. So if you take never out of that sentence, he clearly admitted to saying it. That's how it works, right?
And when it comes to large format digital cameras, I expect them only as technical or view cameras, not consumer-friendly systems like 645D/Z

Poit · 10-25-2014, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

For Pentax, on the other hand, their 'pro' cameras should meet the specs of other 'pro' cameras.

Originally posted by Na Horuk

i can't imagine who would need 50MP. Except maybe the marketing department, to show consumers of the ignorant variety that "we are winning the MP war!"

A large part of the argument in favour of 36 or 50MP, that I read in these parts, focuses on the suggestion that Pentax would be viewed as "behind the competition" if their FF was 24MP. I'm not pointing the finger at the above two quotes, by the way, as both posters acknowledge that it's not just about MP.

Just a hypothetical, but what if Pentax pitched the 24MP FF as a competitor to the flagships of Nikon (D4s - 16MP) and Canon (1Dx - 18MP) for sports and wedding shooters? Sure, they have a lot of work to do to catch up in certain respects, particularly AF, but those two cameras are still regarded as benchmarks in the 'pro' photography world. So, if Pentax were able to produce a comparably spec'd machine (perhaps with some new tech that they don't have), and then work that into their marketing (this camera is more attractive to sports and wedding shooters than the 1Dx or D4s), I think the "Pentax is losing the MP war" thing would disappear immediately (perhaps replaced by "Pentax is losing the AF war"!!!).

Here's a summary of a D4s review by Imaging Resource (I respect these guys, due to their fair reviews of Pentax cameras): Nikon D4S Review - Conclusion .

Specifically, does "low megapixel count" appear in the 'cons' column? Nope. More interestingly, "large hefty body" does appear in the cons column. An opportunity?

Most interestingly, how many of the items in the pros column would Pentax struggle to match? As I've said above, I think AF (and perhaps video) is the big one.

**Erictator** · 10-25-2014, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by Poit

Most interestingly, how many of the items in the pros column would Pentax struggle to match? As I've said above, I think AF is the big one.

And... FLASH. I hope if they do a pro FF body, whatever sensor comes in it, that they make TTL flash an option, but I'm not too hopeful, since the new 645z is still stuck with P-TTL only as far as I can tell. As someone who shot a lot of weddings with the old original film Pentax 645, TTL flash was just fine with me and my multi flash setup. Pentax's implimentation of P-TTL has been less than optimal... that, and a decent flash sync speed would be nice too...

Eric

Poit · 10-25-2014, 01:43 PM

Sorry, you're right Eric, flash is another obvious shortcoming. I'm not convinced it should be that difficult to solve, though...

**Pål Jensen** · 10-25-2014, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by Poit

Just a hypothetical, but what if Pentax pitched the 24MP FF as a competitor to the flagships of Nikon (D4s - 16MP) and Canon (1Dx - 18MP) for sports and wedding shooters? Sure, they have a lot of work to do to catch up in certain respects, particularly AF, but those two cameras are still regarded as benchmarks in the 'pro' photography world. So, if Pentax were able to produce a comparably spec'd machine (perhaps with some new tech that they don't have), and then work that into their marketing (this camera is more attractive to sports and wedding shooters than the 1Dx or D4s), I think the "Pentax is losing the MP war" thing would disappear immediately (perhaps replaced by "Pentax is losing the AF war"!!!).

The problem with the "low" mp solution is that it will compete with their APS bodies canibalizing sales of both. A camera between the K-3 and the 645z will fit better in the line-up. A true pro body will miss the point for core Pentax users and be too expensive.

Na Horuk · 10-25-2014, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by Poit

Just a hypothetical, but what if Pentax pitched the 24MP FF as a competitor to the flagships of Nikon (D4s - 16MP) and Canon (1Dx - 18MP) for sports and wedding shooters?

I would say that Pentax should not compete with those cameras yet. The Canikon flagships have a long line, a FF tradition. Pentax, even though they have a rich history with film SLRs and crop DSLRs, do not. The first Pentax FF should compete with the low end Canikon FF, and the next one, learning from the first, should go against the flagships. If Pentax' first FF goes against D4s, D810, it could be a disaster, because those are already well-established leaders. Better to start slow and sneak up than jump straight into the ring with the champ, in my opinion. Though, if Pentax does go against 1Dx and 5DIII, I wish them all the best.

mythguy9 · 10-25-2014, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by Na Horuk

The first Pentax FF should compete with the low end Canikon FF

I agree, because Pentax never really do pro market except the medium format cameras. It has been a major participant in consumer and entry level market and should start so with FF if it ever comes...

rawr · 10-25-2014, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by Na Horuk

The first Pentax FF should compete with the low end Canikon FF

Gets my vote.

Note that the 'low-end' of Canikon FF's (Canon 6D, Nikon D610) are still excellent cameras with great image quality. 'Low-end' is no slur nowadays. The Canon 6D is a great low-light performer, the Nikon D610 outranks the D750 on DxOMark.

But these models all have some deficiencies that would make a Pentax 'low-end' FF stand-out - Pentax could add better build quality, WR, shake reduction, a bigger buffer, higher fps, quieter shutter, no anti-alias filter etc. In other words, a FF K-3 with a few tweaks (maybe even share the same battery grip and batteries with the K-3). Pentax could even throw in WiFi and a flippy screen, just to really bring the fight up to Nikon and Canon at that end of the market. Make the price competitive with the 'low-end' Canikons and it would be a very easy camera for Ricoh to to sell lots of.

patarok · 10-25-2014, 06:25 PM

Originally posted by mythguy9

I agree, because Pentax never really do pro market except the medium format cameras. It has been a major participant in consumer and entry level market and should start so with FF if it ever comes...

completely disagree, pentax did very professional cameras, at some points in history, there always was one model that exceeded the consumer cameras.
The LX, for an example, the Z-1P, K2DMD, and the MZ-S are very popular and professional cameras, and they were able to compete, if not surpass other SLRs at their time.
The MZ-S was a real heavy hitter when it came out. The only thing with Pentax in the recent time is, that the top models let you wait. The MZ-S for example was time-wise behind Canikon but at the time when it came out, it was a real competitor.

A real "hole in one" but last in row on the golf-court.

And if you look at the features of the K-7, K-5, K-5II and so on, you have to admit, that Canikons Crop-SLRs are way behind Pentax.(I hereby also point at the cheap feeling of Nikons kit lenses) Those cameras(digital K) are as professional as can be in the APS-C DSLR sector. The only thing here with some tech fanboys is, that they are all missing 100 AF sensors of which neither they nor the camera really would make use of.
And what is so special about the 5D except the sound designed shutter?(The first one did not even had live view...)
Lets take a note here, that the 5D series is not classified as professional by Canon itself.(only the 1D series, of which only the 3rd Generation had a full frame sensor.) Far too much spook, guys. too much spook.
And if the technology is here and well tested, the Ricoh-Pentax guys should beat up the market with a real behemoth.

10-25-2014, 01:26 PM	#113
Poit Banned Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Canberra, Australia Posts: 423	What if... Originally posted by ElJamoquio For Pentax, on the other hand, their 'pro' cameras should meet the specs of other 'pro' cameras. Originally posted by Na Horuk i can't imagine who would need 50MP. Except maybe the marketing department, to show consumers of the ignorant variety that "we are winning the MP war!" A large part of the argument in favour of 36 or 50MP, that I read in these parts, focuses on the suggestion that Pentax would be viewed as "behind the competition" if their FF was 24MP. I'm not pointing the finger at the above two quotes, by the way, as both posters acknowledge that it's not just about MP. Just a hypothetical, but what if Pentax pitched the 24MP FF as a competitor to the flagships of Nikon (D4s - 16MP) and Canon (1Dx - 18MP) for sports and wedding shooters? Sure, they have a lot of work to do to catch up in certain respects, particularly AF, but those two cameras are still regarded as benchmarks in the 'pro' photography world. So, if Pentax were able to produce a comparably spec'd machine (perhaps with some new tech that they don't have), and then work that into their marketing (this camera is more attractive to sports and wedding shooters than the 1Dx or D4s), I think the "Pentax is losing the MP war" thing would disappear immediately (perhaps replaced by "Pentax is losing the AF war"!!!). Here's a summary of a D4s review by Imaging Resource (I respect these guys, due to their fair reviews of Pentax cameras): Nikon D4S Review - Conclusion . Specifically, does "low megapixel count" appear in the 'cons' column? Nope. More interestingly, "large hefty body" does appear in the cons column. An opportunity? Most interestingly, how many of the items in the pros column would Pentax struggle to match? As I've said above, I think AF (and perhaps video) is the big one. Last edited by Poit; 10-25-2014 at 01:40 PM.

10-25-2014, 01:37 PM	#114
Erictator Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,345	Originally posted by Poit Most interestingly, how many of the items in the pros column would Pentax struggle to match? As I've said above, I think AF is the big one. And... FLASH. I hope if they do a pro FF body, whatever sensor comes in it, that they make TTL flash an option, but I'm not too hopeful, since the new 645z is still stuck with P-TTL only as far as I can tell. As someone who shot a lot of weddings with the old original film Pentax 645, TTL flash was just fine with me and my multi flash setup. Pentax's implimentation of P-TTL has been less than optimal... that, and a decent flash sync speed would be nice too... Eric Last edited by Erictator; 10-25-2014 at 04:19 PM. Reason: spelling/grammar

10-25-2014, 02:45 PM	#117
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Originally posted by Poit Just a hypothetical, but what if Pentax pitched the 24MP FF as a competitor to the flagships of Nikon (D4s - 16MP) and Canon (1Dx - 18MP) for sports and wedding shooters? I would say that Pentax should not compete with those cameras yet. The Canikon flagships have a long line, a FF tradition. Pentax, even though they have a rich history with film SLRs and crop DSLRs, do not. The first Pentax FF should compete with the low end Canikon FF, and the next one, learning from the first, should go against the flagships. If Pentax' first FF goes against D4s, D810, it could be a disaster, because those are already well-established leaders. Better to start slow and sneak up than jump straight into the ring with the champ, in my opinion. Though, if Pentax does go against 1Dx and 5DIII, I wish them all the best. Last edited by Na Horuk; 10-25-2014 at 04:32 PM.

10-25-2014, 06:05 PM	#119
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Na Horuk The first Pentax FF should compete with the low end Canikon FF Gets my vote. Note that the 'low-end' of Canikon FF's (Canon 6D, Nikon D610) are still excellent cameras with great image quality. 'Low-end' is no slur nowadays. The Canon 6D is a great low-light performer, the Nikon D610 outranks the D750 on DxOMark. But these models all have some deficiencies that would make a Pentax 'low-end' FF stand-out - Pentax could add better build quality, WR, shake reduction, a bigger buffer, higher fps, quieter shutter, no anti-alias filter etc. In other words, a FF K-3 with a few tweaks (maybe even share the same battery grip and batteries with the K-3). Pentax could even throw in WiFi and a flippy screen, just to really bring the fight up to Nikon and Canon at that end of the market. Make the price competitive with the 'low-end' Canikons and it would be a very easy camera for Ricoh to to sell lots of. Last edited by rawr; 10-25-2014 at 06:10 PM.

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10-21-2014, 02:52 PM	#106
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by Paul MaudDib Full-frame-6x7 or 6x9 sensors would be amazing. My guess is that that will never ever happen.

10-25-2014, 09:43 AM	#107
noser Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Calgary, AB CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 292	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 My guess is that that will never ever happen. And the world will never need more than 5 computers (IBM) or 640K (Bill Gates). Things move on...

10-25-2014, 10:43 AM	#108
promacjoe Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 340	Originally posted by noser And the world will never need more than 5 computers (IBM) or 640K (Bill Gates). Things move on... Also: when Intel was trying to figure out where to put their bios, someone remarked, Who could ever use more than one Megabyte of memory. Or so the story goes.

10-25-2014, 10:45 AM	#109
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by noser And the world will never need more than 5 computers (IBM) or 640K (Bill Gates). Things move on... Bill Gates said he never said that.

10-25-2014, 11:33 AM	#110
dakight Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Phoenix, AZ Photos: Albums Posts: 1,216	When it comes to technology never say "never."

10-25-2014, 11:35 AM	#111
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Maybe next decade....

10-25-2014, 12:48 PM	#112
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Originally posted by ElJamoquio Bill Gates said he never said that. Never say never. So if you take never out of that sentence, he clearly admitted to saying it. That's how it works, right? And when it comes to large format digital cameras, I expect them only as technical or view cameras, not consumer-friendly systems like 645D/Z

10-25-2014, 01:43 PM	#115
Poit Banned Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Canberra, Australia Posts: 423	Sorry, you're right Eric, flash is another obvious shortcoming. I'm not convinced it should be that difficult to solve, though...

10-25-2014, 02:36 PM	#116
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by Poit Just a hypothetical, but what if Pentax pitched the 24MP FF as a competitor to the flagships of Nikon (D4s - 16MP) and Canon (1Dx - 18MP) for sports and wedding shooters? Sure, they have a lot of work to do to catch up in certain respects, particularly AF, but those two cameras are still regarded as benchmarks in the 'pro' photography world. So, if Pentax were able to produce a comparably spec'd machine (perhaps with some new tech that they don't have), and then work that into their marketing (this camera is more attractive to sports and wedding shooters than the 1Dx or D4s), I think the "Pentax is losing the MP war" thing would disappear immediately (perhaps replaced by "Pentax is losing the AF war"!!!). The problem with the "low" mp solution is that it will compete with their APS bodies canibalizing sales of both. A camera between the K-3 and the 645z will fit better in the line-up. A true pro body will miss the point for core Pentax users and be too expensive.

10-25-2014, 04:13 PM	#118
mythguy9 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Photos: Albums Posts: 276	Originally posted by Na Horuk The first Pentax FF should compete with the low end Canikon FF I agree, because Pentax never really do pro market except the medium format cameras. It has been a major participant in consumer and entry level market and should start so with FF if it ever comes...

10-25-2014, 06:25 PM	#120
patarok Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Photos: Gallery Posts: 389	Originally posted by mythguy9 I agree, because Pentax never really do pro market except the medium format cameras. It has been a major participant in consumer and entry level market and should start so with FF if it ever comes... completely disagree, pentax did very professional cameras, at some points in history, there always was one model that exceeded the consumer cameras. The LX, for an example, the Z-1P, K2DMD, and the MZ-S are very popular and professional cameras, and they were able to compete, if not surpass other SLRs at their time. The MZ-S was a real heavy hitter when it came out. The only thing with Pentax in the recent time is, that the top models let you wait. The MZ-S for example was time-wise behind Canikon but at the time when it came out, it was a real competitor. A real "hole in one" but last in row on the golf-court. And if you look at the features of the K-7, K-5, K-5II and so on, you have to admit, that Canikons Crop-SLRs are way behind Pentax.(I hereby also point at the cheap feeling of Nikons kit lenses) Those cameras(digital K) are as professional as can be in the APS-C DSLR sector. The only thing here with some tech fanboys is, that they are all missing 100 AF sensors of which neither they nor the camera really would make use of. And what is so special about the 5D except the sound designed shutter?(The first one did not even had live view...) Lets take a note here, that the 5D series is not classified as professional by Canon itself.(only the 1D series, of which only the 3rd Generation had a full frame sensor.) Far too much spook, guys. too much spook. And if the technology is here and well tested, the Ricoh-Pentax guys should beat up the market with a real behemoth.