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11-07-2014, 12:08 AM - 1 Like   #31
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One thing that you have to consider is that some FF have a "crop mode" wich means that even ir you have a 35mm sensor, the crop mode will only use part of it ( avoiding vignetting and all that ) and I bet that Pentax FF will have this too, so because all Pentax lenses use the same K mount you will be able to use your current APS-C "only" glass with Pentax FF.. ofcourse is not 100% confirmed cuz nobody knows how is going to be a Pentax FF but is very likely to have this "crop mode" feature as other brands.

I have a K3 and use it with a Sigma 30mm f1.4 Art.. and is really really really great.. it basically behaves as a 50mm in a FF.. the all Sigma Art series with K3 is amazing, sharp, focus fast, and for the images that it delivers it have a really good price... im thinking about getting the 18-35 art.. might be a good choise and hopefully it can be use with a FF, Sigma 35mm art is already FF, so it will behave as it is ment to be.

11-07-2014, 12:54 AM - 1 Like   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
One thing that you have to consider is that some FF have a "crop mode" wich means that even ir you have a 35mm sensor, the crop mode will only use part of it ( avoiding vignetting and all that ) and I bet that Pentax FF will have this too
I hope there'll be a menu option to turn that on or off, Kooks.

On the Sony A7R you drop from 36Mp to just 15 in that mode.

Most of those Sony E-mount lenses are modern designs and just cover a cropped sensor, like the Pentax DA zooms.

But most of the Pentax primes are versions of old film lenses and will use all the pixels.
11-07-2014, 03:05 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Julie, like you I have the K-30, and the Sigma 35mm Art is terrific on it.

On APS-C, the FoV is that classic subject-plus-environment, and you can open up aperture to isolate what you're pointing at with focus.

On FF, the view becomes wider and suddenly 50mm might become your most important length.


Fantastic, Clackers!! It's really good to also hear from someone with a K30 and thanks so much for posting the photo using the 35mm art. Also interesting what you say about when going to FF, the 50mm becomes the important lens. Thanks again.

---------- Post added 11-07-14 at 10:11 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
I think you have very good idea of what makes good/great photos... however, most of the photos shown in your album are not sharp, is it my monitor?
thanks Aleonx3... not sure if it's you're monitor, no one's commented on that yet (but I always welcome helpful comments). The photos I've posted perhaps may not be the sharpest. Just a guess though. In certain moments especially with my own family I don't tend to worry to much about being the sharpest focus. I will look at that more though, thanks for pointing out.

---------- Post added 11-07-14 at 10:16 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
One thing that you have to consider is that some FF have a "crop mode" wich means that even ir you have a 35mm sensor, the crop mode will only use part of it ( avoiding vignetting and all that ) and I bet that Pentax FF will have this too, so because all Pentax lenses use the same K mount you will be able to use your current APS-C "only" glass with Pentax FF.. ofcourse is not 100% confirmed cuz nobody knows how is going to be a Pentax FF but is very likely to have this "crop mode" feature as other brands.

I have a K3 and use it with a Sigma 30mm f1.4 Art.. and is really really really great.. it basically behaves as a 50mm in a FF.. the all Sigma Art series with K3 is amazing, sharp, focus fast, and for the images that it delivers it have a really good price... im thinking about getting the 18-35 art.. might be a good choise and hopefully it can be use with a FF, Sigma 35mm art is already FF, so it will behave as it is ment to be.
Thanks so much Kooks, also good to hear about your experience with the sigma 30mm art.

---------- Post added 11-07-14 at 10:21 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by MetteHHH Quote
I think the general direction of the advice is to upgrade your lens - I would second that.

Even more since you are not really in an either-or situation at this point: There is no Pentax FF, so if you go full frame you need to replace your lenses as well.

I have had (and broken) a K3. I am getting one again - because today I got the great news that my insurance provided stupidity coverage (again). The K3 is the best camera I have owned, and I personally have no need for full frame any time soon. There is still plenty of room for upgrades in the current Pentax bodies - but I also advice beginning with a new lens.

If you are looking for something versatile that would give you an IQ upgrade, I just bought the Tamron 28-75mm f2.8, and from what I have seen of it so far, it is a great lens for the price.
thanks MetteHHH, I'm so glad your insurance covered the broken camera! That Tamron lens is also on my list, I've looked into it before as I'm not sure yet whether a fixed or a good zoom is best for my needs. Thanks for your advice, I agree... the decision is to upgrade lens.

---------- Post added 11-07-14 at 10:30 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by phoenixvision Quote
One point you might want to consider as well is that the lenses will generally hold their value...and be of use to you whenever you upgrade your body, but bodies in the digital age, eventually become obsolete......so lenses are generally a better investment and will improve the quality of your shot significantly,
Hi phoenixvision... you've nailed it! that is the answer to the fundamental question. I think everyone here has helped me realise what I probably knew deep down. Also now looking at a couple of lenses I'd not known about. What a great forum community!

---------- Post added 11-07-14 at 10:33 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Hi Julie, one thing to consider when considering switching systems is whether or not image stabilization is useful to you. Sometimes I'm tempted to switch, then I consider the paucity of stabilized primes in other systems (APS-C and FF) and the urge to switch withers on the vine.

Also, its good to remember that the APS-C cameras of today perform comparably to the FF cameras of yesteryear.
love your quote as well... ' A good photographer credits his equipment. A bad photographer blames his.' excellent!

---------- Post added 11-07-14 at 10:37 AM ----------

Hi Voice of REason, thanks for the reply.Yesl, Joe (earlier post) mentioned 18-35 f1.8 yet... I need a spreadsheet now, lol! Thanks for your advice and also good to know about re selling price. After this post I started looking for used Sigma lenses and do notice the price isn't much different than new. cheers!

---------- Post added 11-07-14 at 10:42 AM ----------

Thanks to everyone for your advice, views and experience. It's obvious that getting a new lens is the way to go. Glad Christmas is coming soon.....

Last edited by Julie Whelan; 11-07-2014 at 03:40 AM.
11-07-2014, 06:53 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I hope there'll be a menu option to turn that on or off, Kooks.

On the Sony A7R you drop from 36Mp to just 15 in that mode.

Most of those Sony E-mount lenses are modern designs and just cover a cropped sensor, like the Pentax DA zooms.

But most of the Pentax primes are versions of old film lenses and will use all the pixels.
I'm hoping the same...
Vignetting isn't always as bad in all the lenses, at all the focals, for all the apertures and for all the settings (SR on/off)...
If I can crop a picture to 1.3x and another to 1.45x I don't see why I'd like to limit the output to 1.5x... I'd rather have a black area in the RAW and then crop in post.
Also, depending on the strength of the dropoff, I could stand some vignetting in some images.

11-07-2014, 10:20 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
I'm hoping the same...
Vignetting isn't always as bad in all the lenses, at all the focals, for all the apertures and for all the settings (SR on/off)...
If I can crop a picture to 1.3x and another to 1.45x I don't see why I'd like to limit the output to 1.5x... I'd rather have a black area in the RAW and then crop in post.
Also, depending on the strength of the dropoff, I could stand some vignetting in some images.
In practice I've found it's nice to have the option, where you can turn it off or on depending on how much that particular 'aps-c' lens really vignettes on FF, how much time you want to spend in post that day , how much space you have left on the card, how many FPS you need....

It's nice sometimes to flip a switch and get 1.5x or 1.2x or 5:4 crops out of each snap (we'd hope for more options than just 1.5x) - and it's nice sometimes to turn it off and deal with it more carefully in post as well. It's actually a fun and welcome feature IMO, and the overlay that appears in the VF shows you what you're going to 'get'.
11-07-2014, 10:36 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
In practice I've found it's nice to have the option
In practice in a real camera you have or in practice like in theory?
I'd be interested to know which camera has such feature (selectable crops).
11-07-2014, 10:44 AM - 1 Like   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
In practice in a real camera you have or in practice like in theory?
I'd be interested to know which camera has such feature (selectable crops).
My D800 for one, there are probably others I"m not aware of. I use 1.5x, 1.2x and 5:4 depending on the lens and the subject distance, and the only aps-c lenses I currently shoot are the 35 f/1.8G (older aps-c version, there's a new FF version now) and the Sigma 50-150 f/2.8 HSM.

The 35 is usually shot with auto-crop turned of, or sometimes 1.2x or 5:4. It doesn't vignette enough to require the full 1.5x.

I usually shoot the Sigma 50-150 at the full 1.5x crop.
11-07-2014, 10:59 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
My D800 for one, there are probably others I"m not aware of. I use 1.5x, 1.2x and 5:4 depending on the lens and the subject distance, and the only aps-c lenses I currently shoot are the 35 f/1.8G (older aps-c version, there's a new FF version now) and the Sigma 50-150 f/2.8 HSM.

The 35 is usually shot with auto-crop turned of, or sometimes 1.2x or 5:4. It doesn't vignette enough to require the full 1.5x.

I usually shoot the Sigma 50-150 at the full 1.5x crop.
Thanks for the clarification!
...unfortunately no Pentax lenses on that one... not without an adapter with glass inside...

11-07-2014, 11:05 AM - 1 Like   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
Thanks for the clarification!
...unfortunately no Pentax lenses on that one... not without an adapter with glass inside...
I think though that Pentax users would get more use and utility out of a configurable/optional auto-crop mode than Canon or Nikon users, maybe - think of the DA limiteds, the 50-150, 16-50, etc.

If the FF body is 36MP or more you'd see no IQ decline from the K5 using auto-crop in a K-FF body, and you could take your time transitioning to FF lenses (or even don't really transition beyond what you buy new - keep the old ones you like as I did with the Sigma 50-150.)
11-07-2014, 02:33 PM - 1 Like   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I hope there'll be a menu option to turn that on or off, Kooks.

On the Sony A7R you drop from 36Mp to just 15 in that mode.

Most of those Sony E-mount lenses are modern designs and just cover a cropped sensor, like the Pentax DA zooms.

But most of the Pentax primes are versions of old film lenses and will use all the pixels.

Well thats what i hope too.. i know that some Nikon FF have the "crop mode" to 1.3 or 1.5, and is really nice cuz we can still use some good APS-C glass with the FF... for example.. in my case will be able to keep using the Sigma 30 f1.4 almost like a 50mm .. mean while i get 50mm art.. for telephoto lenses i think that this could be great too so we can still use the 300mm as 450mm .. .. Actually the first lense that i would really like to get for a FF is a fast wide angle lense.. Could be a 20mm or even better a 15mm f2.8 or something like that.. bisides that.. i can manage myself with the crop ones for a while.. if they are good glass ( like the sigmas ) perhaps there is no such a big hurry to change them.

from 36MP to 15MP is still a good resolution ( almost like the K5s ) .. if they can manage to do it from 36mp to 20 / 22 it could be even better.

BUUUT.. lets see.. February might be the date when we will know what is going on.
11-07-2014, 06:17 PM - 1 Like   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by phoenixvision Quote
One point you might want to consider as well is that the lenses will generally hold their value...and be of use to you whenever you upgrade your body, but bodies in the digital age, eventually become obsolete......so lenses are generally a better investment and will improve the quality of your shot significantly,
Absolutely... My DSLR lost half its value in 3 years - even getting a great deal on a used body to begin with. The kit lens that came with it lost 25% of its value over a 4-year timeframe. Glass that isn't consumer crap holds its value outright.

It's really, really rare that you lose significant amounts of money from owning glass, unless you get ripped off to start with. You may lose Paypal fees and shipping, but usually the glass itself won't sink in price, it's just a slightly-less-liquid asset with some trading fees. Because I'm an incorrigible bargain hunter, I've actually made a decent profit just from buying and selling glass, and I get to keep the real gems. It doesn't come close to funding the hobby, but it helps defray the cost of some nicer toys than I could normally afford.

Now that said, if you did not own a body that is capable of shooting reasonably at ISO 3200 or 6400 (which the OP's K-30 is), then I HIGHLY recommend jumping to a body that can do that. High ISO + fast glass is a wicked combination, and they're not that expensive these days.

Also - if you are willing to lay out some cash, jumping to FF is worth it. It's not the same value proposition as APS-C, but it IS higher performance at a higher cost. A D600 is a really nice shooter, or an A7/r is a serious value/capability proposition if you're into manual focus primes. /activates flame-proof suit

QuoteOriginally posted by VoiceOfReason Quote
I'd almost get the Sigma 18-35 f/1.8 if I were you. It is fast, sharp, and gets you going really nicely on the wide end of things. You should also be able to sell it for nearly what you paid for it if you decide it isn't for you.
Without question, that's a top-notch lens.

The Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 beats it in terms of value and zoom range - but it can't match the aperture or the performance, and the focusing motor sounds like an angry hornet's nest. If you want to jump to something more than just maximizing your value - the 18-35/1.8 is a great contender.

My other suggestions would be a Sigma 35/1.4 Art or Sigma 50/1.4 Art. Both of those are top-of-the-line primes. If you want to go cheap and are willing to deal with manual focus - the Samyang 35/1.4 and 24/1.4 are both fabulous too, and the value CAN'T be beat. We're talking a top-of-the-line 35/1.4 for $300 if you shop around, that's chump change in Photo Dollars (current exchange rate between $2.0 and $10.0 USD to $1 photodollar depending on your level of addiction ). Buy yourself a $30 focus screen off eBay using the $500 you saved over the Sigma, or maybe even splurge for the katzeye, and focusing will be easier than you ever imagined. I don't trust AF in low light anyway.

What can I say, I like available light shooting, so I favor fast primes (or superfast zooms) and high ISO

Last edited by Paul MaudDib; 11-07-2014 at 06:31 PM.
11-08-2014, 05:02 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul MaudDib Quote
Absolutely... My DSLR lost half its value in 3 years - even getting a great deal on a used body to begin with. The kit lens that came with it lost 25% of its value over a 4-year timeframe. Glass that isn't consumer crap holds its value outright.

It's really, really rare that you lose significant amounts of money from owning glass, unless you get ripped off to start with. You may lose Paypal fees and shipping, but usually the glass itself won't sink in price, it's just a slightly-less-liquid asset with some trading fees. Because I'm an incorrigible bargain hunter, I've actually made a decent profit just from buying and selling glass, and I get to keep the real gems. It doesn't come close to funding the hobby, but it helps defray the cost of some nicer toys than I could normally afford.

Now that said, if you did not own a body that is capable of shooting reasonably at ISO 3200 or 6400 (which the OP's K-30 is), then I HIGHLY recommend jumping to a body that can do that. High ISO + fast glass is a wicked combination, and they're not that expensive these days.

Also - if you are willing to lay out some cash, jumping to FF is worth it. It's not the same value proposition as APS-C, but it IS higher performance at a higher cost. A D600 is a really nice shooter, or an A7/r is a serious value/capability proposition if you're into manual focus primes. /activates flame-proof suit



Without question, that's a top-notch lens.

The Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 beats it in terms of value and zoom range - but it can't match the aperture or the performance, and the focusing motor sounds like an angry hornet's nest. If you want to jump to something more than just maximizing your value - the 18-35/1.8 is a great contender.

My other suggestions would be a Sigma 35/1.4 Art or Sigma 50/1.4 Art. Both of those are top-of-the-line primes. If you want to go cheap and are willing to deal with manual focus - the Samyang 35/1.4 and 24/1.4 are both fabulous too, and the value CAN'T be beat. We're talking a top-of-the-line 35/1.4 for $300 if you shop around, that's chump change in Photo Dollars (current exchange rate between $2.0 and $10.0 USD to $1 photodollar depending on your level of addiction ). Buy yourself a $30 focus screen off eBay using the $500 you saved over the Sigma, or maybe even splurge for the katzeye, and focusing will be easier than you ever imagined. I don't trust AF in low light anyway.

What can I say, I like available light shooting, so I favor fast primes (or superfast zooms) and high ISO
Very helpful post, so many thanks. I'm mulling over these ideas myself at the mo. one AIO lens for travel of the 16/18-135mm kind, one fast prime for street and doubling up for landscapes (35mm eqiv) and one wide prime for interiors (20-24mm eqiv, AF not essential) and I would have most of it. Hard not to think Fuji here. Could add 85mm eqiv later for bokeh'd shots and perhaps a long one for summer butterflies (trading my battered olde K5 for a second-hand KII/s and keeping my 100mm macro would cover that in fact, the quality out of it with a bit of pp for detail and colour is excellent). Must be good not just OK at 800 ISO and decently usable at 1600 are quite important for me, especially for critters.
11-08-2014, 08:17 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I hope there'll be a menu option to turn that on or off, Kooks.

On the Sony A7R you drop from 36Mp to just 15 in that mode.

Most of those Sony E-mount lenses are modern designs and just cover a cropped sensor, like the Pentax DA zooms.

But most of the Pentax primes are versions of old film lenses and will use all the pixels.
Yes, Pentax should have this option on any FF they produce. Do you have the option on the A7R or is it automatic?
11-08-2014, 06:19 PM - 1 Like   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul MaudDib Quote
Absolutely... My DSLR lost half its value in 3 years - even getting a great deal on a used body to begin with. The kit lens that came with it lost 25% of its value over a 4-year timeframe. Glass that isn't consumer crap holds its value outright.

It's really, really rare that you lose significant amounts of money from owning glass, unless you get ripped off to start with. You may lose Paypal fees and shipping, but usually the glass itself won't sink in price, it's just a slightly-less-liquid asset with some trading fees. Because I'm an incorrigible bargain hunter, I've actually made a decent profit just from buying and selling glass, and I get to keep the real gems. It doesn't come close to funding the hobby, but it helps defray the cost of some nicer toys than I could normally afford.

Now that said, if you did not own a body that is capable of shooting reasonably at ISO 3200 or 6400 (which the OP's K-30 is), then I HIGHLY recommend jumping to a body that can do that. High ISO + fast glass is a wicked combination, and they're not that expensive these days.

Also - if you are willing to lay out some cash, jumping to FF is worth it. It's not the same value proposition as APS-C, but it IS higher performance at a higher cost. A D600 is a really nice shooter, or an A7/r is a serious value/capability proposition if you're into manual focus primes. /activates flame-proof suit



Without question, that's a top-notch lens.

The Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 beats it in terms of value and zoom range - but it can't match the aperture or the performance, and the focusing motor sounds like an angry hornet's nest. If you want to jump to something more than just maximizing your value - the 18-35/1.8 is a great contender.

My other suggestions would be a Sigma 35/1.4 Art or Sigma 50/1.4 Art. Both of those are top-of-the-line primes. If you want to go cheap and are willing to deal with manual focus - the Samyang 35/1.4 and 24/1.4 are both fabulous too, and the value CAN'T be beat. We're talking a top-of-the-line 35/1.4 for $300 if you shop around, that's chump change in Photo Dollars (current exchange rate between $2.0 and $10.0 USD to $1 photodollar depending on your level of addiction ). Buy yourself a $30 focus screen off eBay using the $500 you saved over the Sigma, or maybe even splurge for the katzeye, and focusing will be easier than you ever imagined. I don't trust AF in low light anyway.

What can I say, I like available light shooting, so I favor fast primes (or superfast zooms) and high ISO
If you are into shallow depth of field or low-light photography, the Sigma 18-35 offers more capability and better image quality. If you shoot landscapes at f5.6-16, the Tamron will equal it, though.
11-08-2014, 06:59 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mikesul Quote
Yes, Pentax should have this option on any FF they produce. Do you have the option on the A7R or is it automatic?
I don't own one, Mike ... yet.
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