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12-21-2014, 09:21 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Danas_Anis Quote
Honestly,

Ricoh Pentax has no need for a so called FF body, they could just release 645z for a price of Canon 5D mark3 and everyone would be happy.
It's selling like hot cakes at the current price point, why would they want to slash the price? Now that's shooting in one's own foot!
Besides, MF lenses cost an arm and a leg, and I can't mount my perfectly-fine-for-my-needs SMC-M glass on it...

QuoteOriginally posted by Danas_Anis Quote
TO exclude video is like shooting into your own feet. DO you think if Pentax didn;t had any kind of Video recording they would still be there in the market? I doubt it.

Sometimes I watch people who come to buy their I supposed first ever camera and one of the questions are: does this shoot full HD video in high quality?" and obviously that person won;t be filming anything else but their kittens eating on tables. and I would be surprised that this person even knows what is prime lens and how it differs from zoom lens. SO facts is, to keep on the market, video now must be considered for every DSLR. if no video, then this camera must be so unique that it woudl be worht the buyer to have it for stills only. Just keep in mind, 21century is the era of bridge imaging masters, the one has to do stills and video.
Then you agree with the current strategy of providing only very basic video function, just because "we need to include video, the hell with the implementation?".
Just asking, it's a market strategy as valid as the next one.

12-21-2014, 10:14 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
It's selling like hot cakes at the current price point, why would they want to slash the price? Now that's shooting in one's own foot!
Besides, MF lenses cost an arm and a leg, and I can't mount my perfectly-fine-for-my-needs SMC-M glass on it...



Then you agree with the current strategy of providing only very basic video function, just because "we need to include video, the hell with the implementation?".
Just asking, it's a market strategy as valid as the next one.
Don;t know how well 645z sales, that is out of my price tag, I would need to sell my apartment, but thninking about a camera that nowadays wouldn;t need video capabilities, something like 645z at even more affordable price would do the trick.


I honestly hope Pentax will give more love to video capabilities than they are doing now. As a matter of fact, they don;t need to do much, get rid of some ridiculous decisions like sSR, give it a better video recording codec, fix some silly software behavior, like when in video mode, don;t compensate the scene exposure, when preparing for video shooting it is better to see how the whole thing will look rather than after hinting record discover underexposed scene.
Aperture controls during video recording ( thanks God to the old manual lenses with aperture rings as a work around) focus peaking during video recording. And this is extremely good start.

Then of course the rest bells and whistles, HDMI out to external recorders, 4K because in next few years no 4K will mean no business to you. ( I epxected 4K to be a bit sluggish, bet we are already having huge 4K televisions sales at stores!I dind't think it will be this fast) phase detection points on sensors to work in video mode to do fluent tracking of subjects would be nice and will be a heavy pointer in the tech spec. although I still preffer focusing manually.

Pentax doens;t have to be greatest here, just on par with competition, look at Samsung NX1, it actually doens;t offer much for hollywood level film production, but it offers good enough for independent film maker to do some serious work.
That is what Ricoh Pentax Should do.

I guess this time not Samsung should copy Pentax DSLR, but Ricoh Pentax should learn from Samsung NX1 system camera how to do things right (of course I can;t talke here about still photography, because pentax was always extremely good at it, I just miss that excitement Pentax k7 and its clown short film made. They made it seem like Pentax was serious about everyone.
12-21-2014, 10:45 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by VoiceOfReason Quote
Do you think they could produce an FF 36mp camera with an ISO range of 50-104k? Could they do it with selectable crop factors? Could they put 4k video in it? The selectable AA filter? SR? All the things we are used to in our APSC Pentax cameras and then a little more? Do you think they could do all that for 2000-2400 dollars? Would they do that? What do you think?
They couldn't bring in-body 4K in at that price, but yes. You are talking about some serious processing power with 4K. Everything else on your list is doable at that price. The A7r is selling for under $2,000 right now. You would want a really good IBIS for a 36MP FF sensor. You are more than doubling the weight that the SR system has to handle, so that might require some work. Playing with my A7m2 I don't think the IBIS is as good as the K-3 system. The A7m2 seems to give me a little more than 2 stops so far. All the peepers will be looking at those 36MP images at 1:1 and complaining if they are razor sharp.

The question is.... is 36MP the right thing to do? There is a reason why Canon, Nikon, & Sony have mainly stayed below 25MP for most of their premium cameras. The 5DIII and D750 are both targeting wedding/portrait photographers and those guys don't need or want 36MP files.

D750 produces 30MB RAW files.
D810 produces 74MB RAW files.

If you are shooting an event where you take 500 photos (not uncommon) you are talking about 37GB you have to deal with. Since the resolution difference is not significant for wedding/portrait togs, why go with 36MP? If you shoot landscape and architecture then 36MP without the AA filter might have value, but the 645Z is really the perfect camera for the landscape and architecture professional. If you are not a professional landscape/architecture tog then the K-3 with the right lens is more than enough.

When you factor in workflow and performance, I don't think 36MP is the best choice if Pentax wants to appeal to largest market.
12-21-2014, 11:03 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
They couldn't bring in-body 4K in at that price, but yes. You are talking about some serious processing power with 4K. Everything else on your list is doable at that price. The A7r is selling for under $2,000 right now. You would want a really good IBIS for a 36MP FF sensor. You are more than doubling the weight that the SR system has to handle, so that might require some work. Playing with my A7m2 I don't think the IBIS is as good as the K-3 system. The A7m2 seems to give me a little more than 2 stops so far. All the peepers will be looking at those 36MP images at 1:1 and complaining if they are razor sharp.

The question is.... is 36MP the right thing to do? There is a reason why Canon, Nikon, & Sony have mainly stayed below 25MP for most of their premium cameras. The 5DIII and D750 are both targeting wedding/portrait photographers and those guys don't need or want 36MP files.

D750 produces 30MB RAW files.
D810 produces 74MB RAW files.

If you are shooting an event where you take 500 photos (not uncommon) you are talking about 37GB you have to deal with. Since the resolution difference is not significant for wedding/portrait togs, why go with 36MP? If you shoot landscape and architecture then 36MP without the AA filter might have value, but the 645Z is really the perfect camera for the landscape and architecture professional. If you are not a professional landscape/architecture tog then the K-3 with the right lens is more than enough.

When you factor in workflow and performance, I don't think 36MP is the best choice if Pentax wants to appeal to largest market.
Sony A7s did some technological magic with ff 12mp sensor that can shoot both still and video in high quality under the moon light, what would be nice if Pentax managed to do the same just with 16 megapixel sensor

But I have a suspicion that market today and tomorrow want no less than 24 megapixels, although I am fine with 16 maybe 18

12-21-2014, 12:32 PM   #50
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I guess using a sensor with half the resolution of what APS-C offers today will make the camera too much of a niche. It would be fine if you also have a higher resolution alternative, but not as your only product.
12-21-2014, 06:27 PM   #51
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My big deal with more mp is landscape stuff. I'm an amateur, but I have good gear that gets me good images. I wouldn't mind more resolution for more detail.
12-21-2014, 06:28 PM   #52
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I am thinking that Pentax will release a full frame body in 2015. I also think that it will be in the neighborhood of 36MP. A 36MP FF sensor would have essentially the same pixel pitch as the 16MP ASP-C sized sensor. That has proven to be a very sweet spot for Pentax. It would also equal Nikon's top of the line, and they would not be the low offering if Canon came out with their rumored 50MP. They - Pentax has also gained a lot of experience in processing 50MP images using the K3 guts on the 645Z.

I think that the 645Z also provides a pretty good platform to leverage off of. Leica's S (type 007) uses the same image processing chip as does the 645Z, and they (Leica) have been able to squeeze 4K video out of it. To be fair, I think that it is a generation 7+, same Fujitsu Milbeaut base but with a partial generation enhancement/extension for this. This might put Pentax on a parallel path of supporting both a FF and a mid generation 645Zv enhancement - off of the same guts. Two for the price of one. They could also alternate years - between the two body refreshes. Odd years for the FF, with even years for the 645 - both of which sharing the ASP-C motherboard design and base functionality. That is the only way that Pentax is going to be able maximize their profit stream out of a full line of bodies - the Q, ASP-C, FF and a 645.

They are also going to have to find a way to squeeze some additional capability out of the ASP-C sized sensor - in order to keep the excitement in their DA lens line. Maybe perhaps extending ISO down in order to maintain leadership in dynamic range - if they can get it from Sony.

12-21-2014, 06:28 PM   #53
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The main reason I said 4k is to give videographers a reason to look outside Canon.

02-04-2015, 09:08 PM   #54
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i think if pentax were to do all that... they would kill all other entry-level full frame cameras out of the water especially the Canon 6D and possibly compete with the nikon D750...the main thing that was holding me back from getting the canon 6D was the AF (11points and the 1 cross type= not worth 2400 bucks haha)..if pentax can beat that then they have my 2,000-2,400 bucks in their pockets already haha... i dont really think they need 36mp..just need to keep that AA filter off(like the K5IIs,6D,D810) and that puppy is going to take over the entry level full frame market

---------- Post added 02-04-15 at 09:14 PM ----------

Oh and to answer the question..Yes i do think they CAN do all you mentioned but i dont think they should at least not right now cause its too risky...maybe in a couple of years
02-04-2015, 09:58 PM   #55
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Yeah, but if they don't do what they can right now and stand out from the crowd then I see it as more risky.
02-05-2015, 04:50 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Danas_Anis Quote
Sony A7s did some technological magic with ff 12mp sensor that can shoot both still and video in high quality under the moon light, what would be nice if Pentax managed to do the same just with 16 megapixel sensor

But I have a suspicion that market today and tomorrow want no less than 24 megapixels, although I am fine with 16 maybe 18
Pentax won't put a 12MP sensor on it's new camera if only for the sole reason that cropping it to APS-C will give you (relatively) really small files.
02-05-2015, 11:51 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by axelm7 Quote
The styling is polarizing indeed. I love it, but many people hate the shape of it. If I had to choose ANY FF body from either Canon or Nikon, in fact, I would be between the Df and the D800. The outrage caused by the lack of video is baffling to me. It's a DSLR. It's a professional tool for making photographs, not videos. It's a niche product starting with it's styling and features anyway.
I know right? Seemed like everybody nowadays believes no DSLR's ever existed before Nikon's D90 came out in 2008, and if a DSLR doesn't have video in it, it's not worth looking at/they pretend it doesn't exist, even it's a high-quality camera.

Last edited by disconnekt; 02-05-2015 at 12:00 PM.
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