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11-29-2014, 08:48 AM   #151
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QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
Thats correct.. a FF sensor could be better and in many cases it is, but is not always.. actually the 5Dmk2 have almost the same Color Depth score as the K5 .. but if we compare the latest sensors by Nikon/Canon we can see some advantage there.. APS-C are not at that level.. and perhaps because of the matter of light they will never be ( unless not using actual technology )..

For example we can see that there is a big difference with this:

Nikon D810 vs Pentax K-3 - Our Analysis

Nikon D610 vs Pentax K-3 - Our Analysis

But not so big at this except ( Low Noise )

Canon 5D Mark III vs Pentax K-3 - Our Analysis

So yes you are right with that.. is not the rule.. but well worked it can be..

Lets hope that Pentax FF is one of those that make the difference.
NO we can't see there is a big difference with that. We can speculate that there might be a discernible difference with that.

IN actual fact
Here is a D610 acompared to a K-3 at 100 ISO



Since you posted the above link I wonder if you can defend it....

Where can you "see"
Significanly better Image Quality?
Better colour depth?
More dynamic range?

Simple fact, these are "bacteria measurements" you know they are there but you can't see them.

Heres a comparison d610 vs K-3 at 3200 ISO...


With all due respect, the high ISO advantage is greatly overstated in these kind of comparisons. The D610 is clearly better, but you wouldn't use either of those images if you could use the 100 ISO image... so if you value IQ you aren't going to use either.

The K-3 is capable of a range of 13 EV... one stop is less than a 10% improvement.

Obviously what you actually "see" with your eyes, and what you "see" in your mind are very different.


Last edited by normhead; 11-29-2014 at 09:02 AM.
11-29-2014, 11:40 AM   #152
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Im talking about numbers.. human eye in fact could be tricky with all this.. some people might notice some better IQ, some people might not.. But im just talking about the numbers that are shown there.. Perhaps we can compare a Pentax Kr and a Pentax K5iis and for some people there wont be such a difference there... but there is...

1 stop is the difference between the K3 and the Kr.. .. are both at the same level?? no.
11-29-2014, 01:22 PM - 1 Like   #153
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are you arguing that a difference nobody can see really matters?
11-29-2014, 04:09 PM   #154
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QuoteOriginally posted by Volker76 Quote
are you arguing that a difference nobody can see really matters?
Maybe. If we look at any IR sample image from 1 metre away on the computer screen (or from an 8x10 print at 30cm away) I bet nobody could tell the difference between every test shot IR have ever taken over the last 5 years, no matter what camera was used

The IR test images are useful studio samples, but don't show everything that matters. We don't see the IR examples above shot in dim light, for example, nor do we see IR doing time exposures of those test scenes. Nor do we immediately see how those images behave once we play with them on the computer ...

11-29-2014, 05:39 PM   #155
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Maybe. If we look at any IR sample image from 1 metre away on the computer screen (or from an 8x10 print at 30cm away) I bet nobody could tell the difference between every test shot IR have ever taken over the last 5 years, no matter what camera was used

The IR test images are useful studio samples, but don't show everything that matters. We don't see the IR examples above shot in dim light, for example, nor do we see IR doing time exposures of those test scenes. Nor do we immediately see how those images behave once we play with them on the computer ...
And your conjecture is those things could make a difference?
11-29-2014, 05:58 PM   #156
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
And your conjecture is those things could make a difference?
Yes.

But if I shot all my photos with camera settings and lighting that matched the IR studio samples, probably no.
11-29-2014, 06:06 PM   #157
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Yes.

But if I shot all my photos with camera settings and lighting that matched the IR studio samples, probably no.
AH, I see where you're coming from... so what you're saying is if you were to take images that actually exceeded the cameras dynamic range, like a sunset with a shoreline in shadow.. then you could see some differences.... it goes without saying the IR studio samples keep the whole histogram in the window with space on either side no matter what camera you use.
11-29-2014, 08:22 PM   #158
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
it goes without saying the IR studio samples keep the whole histogram in the window with space on either side no matter what camera you use.
That's right. They are very careful about that. They are a controlled test. Which is very useful, but like any test, the method you use may limit the conclusions you can draw from it.

11-30-2014, 04:42 AM   #159
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
That's just sad. K-3s are under 900 Canadian around here...
New Pentax K 3 Digital SLR Camera Body Only Kit DSLR 15530 | eBay

That's half the price... that's sick.

But it does look like they are dumping those A7 models, possibly in anticipation of the A7II. They must be a lot harder to get rid of than k-3s. Now if they were the same price here, and I could get an A7 for $900, that would be something. But here they are $1599, on sale. Looks like a clear out here too. But still $1800 by the time you've paid the tax.

Search - Henry's best camera store in Canada
In Europe..nearly everything is more expensive...
11-30-2014, 10:37 AM   #160
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I have found this video and just had to share it... this is why FF or ASP-C doesn't matter and in the end is just preference... or why I stay away from technical arguments.

11-30-2014, 11:11 PM   #161
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrNewt Quote

. . . in the end is just preference . . .

That's reason enough for me. I still want a Pentax 36x24 dslr.

(But, I'm skeptical that it'll actually happen.)
11-30-2014, 11:23 PM   #162
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QuoteOriginally posted by .a.t. Quote
I still want a Pentax 36x24 dslr.
Many of us want the same.
Our reasons may vary (low-light sports shooters vs landscape wide shooters etc), but I really do hope that Pentax finally understands that there is a lot of demand out there for a Pentax FF.
12-01-2014, 12:44 AM   #163
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Pentax finally understands that there is a lot of demand out there for a Pentax FF.
And not only the demand of Pentax FF users.. i'm sure that just by having release a FF body this will help with the sales of APS-C bodies too.. This will give the reputation that the company is missing among some costumers .. A FF body will implicitly tell new and already existing users that Pentax is a serious brand that make cameras for professionals too.. ( Once again yes, we have the 645Z but sadly thats not reachable for most of average photographers )..

So a FF body will fill up this gap.. and will put the brand back in the game ( and mouths )..

Last edited by kooks; 12-01-2014 at 01:50 AM.
12-01-2014, 01:28 AM   #164
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QuoteOriginally posted by .a.t. Quote
That's reason enough for me. I still want a Pentax 36x24 dslr.

(But, I'm skeptical that it'll actually happen.)
It will more likely happen next year, than not.
12-01-2014, 04:34 AM   #165
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The biggest difference between APS-C and Full frame is the fact that there are faster lenses available for full frame -- particularly at wider angles. This is particularly true in the Pentax universe, where there are only a couple of Pentax made wide angles (DA 14 and DA *16-50) that are even f2.8. There really isn't anything like the FA 31 or, even a 20mm f2.8 available in the line up.

Just a little side note. I think Sony keeps their lenses light by using more plastic elements and under engineering them, figuring, I guess that they will just do computed corrections in camera. This may be OK for some users, but it wouldn't make me happy.

Last edited by Rondec; 12-01-2014 at 07:41 AM.
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