Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
11-23-2014, 07:10 PM   #76
Pentaxian
kooks's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San José, Costa Rica
Photos: Albums
Posts: 663
QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
Lets not forget that K-mount was always a FF mount. There's no reason to change the mount for a return to FF.
I think the same.. there is no reason to create a new FF mount if they have an already good FF mount.. what they need is to create new glass, thats it.. a 2nd generation of FF AF glass... BUT to keep it with the K mount.

They have the glass, perhaps not the greatest at this time and they have the FF mount, so.. WHY to complicate things thinking that a new mount will "bring" something good?? :/ dont get that. there is no reason, a lot of resourses will be wasted with that and i BET that it wont be well received by Pentaxians.. especially old guys that wish to use again their FF lenses with the FF body.


Last edited by kooks; 11-24-2014 at 12:53 AM.
11-23-2014, 08:48 PM   #77
Site Supporter
jatrax's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 10,770
QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
They have the glass, perhaps not the greatest at this time and they have the FF mount, so.. WHY to complate things thinking that a new mount will "bring" something good?? :/ dont get that. there is no reason, a lot of resourses will be wasted with that and i BET that it wont be well received by Pentaxians.. especially old guys that wish to use again their FF lenses with the FF body.
Because the future is mirrorless and all electronic lens connections?
  • Whether it is 2015 or 2025 the mirror is going, so maybe it is time to think ahead instead of behind.
  • Several third party manufacturers have dropped Pentax completely and Sigma is steadily reducing their offerings. It has been stated that it is harder to develop for K-mount because of the mechanical linkage.
  • Canon and Nikon have the FF DSLR market sewn up, not even Sony has been able to crack that much. But mirrorless FF, that is a new market with potential future.
  • Ricoh appears to be focusing more on developing markets, (Asia, India) perhaps mirrorless is a better fit there.
  • There is zero profit to Ricoh in building cameras for 'old guys that wish to use again their FF lenses with the FF body'.
  • It is easier to develop short registration lens? No idea about that, but Sony, Fuji both seem to have no problem bringing out very nice lenses for their mirrorless offerings.
  • K-mount is a FF mount, but it is also mechanical and outdated.
Just playing devils advocate here. I think the two new prototypes shown at Photokina pretty clearly state a FF will be K-mount. But it does not rule out the possibility of a mirrorless with integrated adapter to k-mount. Personally I am not sure I want mirrorless, and I have a good set of FF K-mount glass so I think I would prefer a traditional DSLR. But if they delivered a FF mirrorless that included in the box a k-mount adapter that functioned seamlessly I think I would be very hard put not to evaluate it seriously. This would allow them to retain current customers but start the move to a modern, short registration mount. Want to stay k-mount? Fine, leave the adapter on. Want to move to the new mount? Easy to do, just take the adapter off.


All knee jerk reactions aside, if (with the adapter) it functions exactly like a current K-mount camera but with EVF what is not to like? Except the EVF of course
11-23-2014, 10:39 PM   #78
Veteran Member
disconnekt's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 504
I don't think alot of people who currently use Pentax are willing to spend MORE money to pretty much rebuy lenses that they already have in a different mount.
Might as well switch systems.
11-23-2014, 11:50 PM   #79
Pentaxian




Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Dallas / Yucatan
Posts: 996
QuoteOriginally posted by disconnekt Quote
I don't think alot of people who currently use Pentax are willing to spend MORE money to pretty much rebuy lenses that they already have in a different mount.
Might as well switch systems.
Really? What about all the people who, for years, have been doing just that, buying up (and bidding up the prices) on screwmount lenses and all the variety of official and after market adapters? What about the people who have been doing surgery on older lenses to adapt them to Pentax registration? What about the guy who's doing a decent business with the multi-mount replacement mount for Pentax bodies?

Sure, the entire market doesn't do that, but neither would the entire market already have old lenses to use, assuming Ricoh/Pentax has a competitive marketing/promotions plan for any new products.

Anyway... What would an electronic interface take? Add some contacts to the current contacts so that third-party makers can mfr fully electronic-controlled lenses? Leave the lever mechanism in place for compatibility with older lenses and add new contacts and circuitry for simultaneous stop-down, whether by the lever or new contacts.

I don't know. It just doesn't seem like an Apollo project to modernize and look toward the future .. to me.

11-24-2014, 12:01 AM   #80
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 714
QuoteOriginally posted by disconnekt Quote
I don't think alot of people who currently use Pentax are willing to spend MORE money to pretty much rebuy lenses that they already have in a different mount.
Might as well switch systems.
agreed. i certainly would not. i would dump my k mount stuff like hot cakes and go back to canon
11-24-2014, 12:30 AM   #81
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: GMT +10
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,832
QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Several third party manufacturers have dropped Pentax completely and Sigma is steadily reducing their offerings.
I'm sure they'd offer even less support if Pentax implemented a new mirrorless mount. A niche new mount within a small market share brand like Pentax isn't going to see the lens makers of the world queuing up to make lenses for you.

Even Sony has had trouble attracting third-party interest in their mirrorless mount. For example, there's only one APS-C E-mount Tamron (18-200mm) and only 3 Sigma APS-C E-mounts (the 19/30/60mm f2.8's). Pentax would probably fare even worse.

If they want third party lens support Pentax should adopt micro 4/3 for the new mount

Last edited by rawr; 11-24-2014 at 01:08 AM.
11-24-2014, 12:50 AM   #82
Pentaxian
JimmyDranox's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Ploiesti, Romania
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,611
After a lot of years of waiting for a FF, Pentax must first convince the current Pentax users that they can produce a good FF, in the actual K mount. Of course, with some FF lenses for it. Not that the place is empty, but because there are some big holes in the FF lenses system right now. For example, I have four FF lenses, but not a whole line. After that, they can do a mirrorless, or whatever they want.

And if I remember well, in the Photokina interview Ricoh officials have said that they have no plans for a mirrorless at this point.

Last edited by JimmyDranox; 11-24-2014 at 12:56 AM.
11-24-2014, 01:03 AM   #83
Pentaxian
kooks's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San José, Costa Rica
Photos: Albums
Posts: 663
As long as they have a FF sensor with K mount support i dont really care if is a DSLR or a mirrorless or whatever... .. In the case ( that i dont really think so ) that they release a mirrorless with a new mount they SHOULD ( and im seriuous here ), they really should include the capability to use K mount lenses with that new system and to be able to use it as good as it works in a normal K mount body. If they dont do that its going to be a waste of product.

11-24-2014, 01:06 AM   #84
Pentaxian
Clavius's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: De Klundert
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,122
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
I'm sure they'd offer even less support if Pentax implemented a new mirrorless mount. A niche new mount within a small market share brand like Pentax isn't going to see the lens makers of the world queuing up to make lenses for you.

Even Sony has had trouble attracting third-party interest in their mirrorless mount. For example, there's only one APS-C E-mount Tamron (18-200mm) and only 3 Sigma APS-C E-mounts (the 19/30/60mm f2.8's). Pentax would probably fare even worse.

If they want third party lens support Pentax should adopt micro 4/3 or something
Unless they adopt the FE mount... FF format mount that supports IBIS. And together with Sony they will attract more third party support.
[Clavius ducks under desk for cover.]
11-24-2014, 01:20 AM   #85
Pentaxian
JimmyDranox's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Ploiesti, Romania
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,611
QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Unless they adopt the FE mount... FF format mount that supports IBIS. And together with Sony they will attract more third party support.
[Clavius ducks under desk for cover.]
Why not sell the whole business to Sony? Oh, this will be not good for the ''ricehigh bandwagon''. They will be left without their working place.
11-24-2014, 01:23 AM   #86
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: GMT +10
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,832
QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Unless they adopt the FE mount... FF format mount that supports IBIS.
Well, they already have a FF mount with shake reduction of their own, so there's not really much for Pentax to gain by going down the FE path.

I do however like the idea of lens mount coalitions/partnerships like micro 4/3. E-mount is not quite there yet as it is still very much a Sony controlled mount, and Pentax would then have Sony steering their destiny.

Sony has 'released the specifications for the E-mount lens system allowing for third-party lens makers to create lenses for the NEX cameras without having to pay royalties. ...[but] In spite of this, the E-mount is not an open standard, since only companies endorsed by Sony are given specifications and only after licensing and signing non-disclosure agreement.'
E-mount - Wikipedia
11-24-2014, 01:49 AM   #87
Pentaxian
Clavius's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: De Klundert
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,122
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Well, they already have a FF mount with shake reduction of their own, so there's not really much for Pentax to gain by going down the FE path.
They gain a mirrorless mount and at the same time give it more traction. But when Pentax would issue their own new mirrorless FF mount it would be a niche of a niche of a niche. No third party manufacturer will make any lens for it any time soon. But when Pentax and maybe even others, join the FE mount, the mount become increasingly interesting for third party manufacturers.
11-24-2014, 03:13 AM   #88
Pentaxian
mecrox's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,115
QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Because the future is mirrorless and all electronic lens connections?
Yes, you are likely right about that. A very difficult balancing act all round. I guess the dilemma for Pentax is how to do enough to keep the holders of legacy lenses on side while producing something that, going forward, is contemporary enough to establish a credible place for itself. A pure DSLR risks being steamrollered by Canon and Nikon and might soon be seen as too old fashioned (over a 5-7 year frame) to attract users new to the brand. A pure mirrorless risks costing too much to develop (for Ricoh, anyway). One suggestion has been that a high-resolution K-mount camera would not make legacy lenses all that attractive to use; they would still work perfectly, but the "cost" is that on a modern sensor the result would be a bit subpar and thus owners would be gently pushed towards investing in new lenses. But I guess that avenue - 36 mpx or even more going forward - risks undercutting the 645 series. A rock and a hard place really unless Ricoh have something very clever up their sleeve and enough funds to market it quite prominently, otherwise it won't really gain much traction outside of Japan. Collaborating with another mount risks losing control of your business and is a bit of a blow to the old self-esteem so that one doesn't sound very likely unless a prelude to a merger. But who knows, as always. This is all only a rumour and it will remain a rumour until the day a new product is launched.

Last edited by mecrox; 11-24-2014 at 03:35 AM.
11-24-2014, 03:30 AM   #89
Pentaxian
Clavius's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: De Klundert
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,122
QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Yes, you are likely right about that. I guess the dilemma for Pentax is how to do enough to keep the holders of legacy lenses on side while producing something that, going forward, is contemporary enough to establish a credible place for itself. A pure DSLR risks being steamrollered by Canon and Nikon and might soon be seen as too old fashioned (over a 5-7 year frame) to attract users new to the brand. A pure mirrorless risks costing too much to develop (for Ricoh, anyway). One suggestion has been that a high-resolution K-mount camera would not make legacy lenses all that attractive to use; they would still work perfectly, but the "cost" is that on a modern sensor the result would be a bit subpar and thus owners would be gently pushed towards investing in new lenses. But I guess that avenue - 36 mpx or even more going forward - risks undercutting the 645 series. A rock and a hard place really unless Ricoh have something very clever up their sleeve and enough funds to market it quite prominently, otherwise it won't really gain much traction outside of Japan. Collaborating with another mount risks losing control of your business and is a bit of a blow to the old self-esteem so that one doesn't sound very likely. But who knows, as always. This is all only a rumour and it will remain a rumour until the day a new product is launched.
The way you sum things up it seems like a mirrorless with mirrobox, a KF0-1, is the only solution out of this. I don't like that solution though. Last time they tried that, it went down in flames.

Personally I don't see how adopting a foreign mount is a blow to the self esteem of such a tiny camera brand. They're not Canon or Nikon. Question is, would Sony even let them use it? I seriously doubt that.
11-24-2014, 03:42 AM   #90
Pentaxian
mecrox's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,115
QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
The way you sum things up it seems like a mirrorless with mirrobox, a KF0-1, is the only solution out of this. I don't like that solution though. Last time they tried that, it went down in flames.

Personally I don't see how adopting a foreign mount is a blow to the self esteem of such a tiny camera brand. They're not Canon or Nikon. Question is, would Sony even let them use it? I seriously doubt that.
Well, of course these threads are all just opinion and can be argued any which way. I'm thinking that Ricoh haven't made a serious investment in the imaging biz in order to have, say, Sony, call the shots on Ricoh's own business (as Ricoh might see it). I can understand that completely - unless Ricoh wanted to dispense with their camera business of course, in which case such a collaboration might be the prelude to a merger or floating off a new entity, something like that. It's all possible if two sides are willing isn't it.

For myself, going mirrorless looks the only way for a camera-company to stay in business in mainstream cameras in the long term unless they are Canon or Nikon and even they must be feeling the impact of mirrorless cameras now. Size and weight issues seem to be more and more of a fundamental shift in what buyers want. And one looks at the technology that outfits like Sony and Samsung are managing to pack into their products now and asks how much of it could possibly be done on a conventional DSLR. Still, that's nothing more than a personal opinion.

Last edited by mecrox; 11-24-2014 at 05:36 AM.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
24x36mm, 35mm, 5d, aps-c, body, company, dslr, ff, frame, full-frame, k-01, lens, mark, market, mirrorless, pentax, pentax full frame, photo, release, ricoh, salon, salon de photo, sensor, sony, sr, time
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pentax Full Frame reveald at Salon de la Photo in Paris? RonHendriks1966 Pentax Full Frame 39 11-09-2015 06:14 AM
Pentax Full frame semi confirmed johan kruger Pentax Full Frame 82 02-07-2015 01:05 PM
Surprises at Salon de la Photo, Paris (7 november) Asahiflex Pentax News and Rumors 152 11-12-2013 08:48 PM
Pentax at Le Salon de la Photo 2012 Nitrok Photographic Industry and Professionals 11 11-17-2012 05:08 PM
Salon de la Photos, Paris? benjikan Photographic Technique 6 08-05-2007 02:57 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:24 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top