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12-09-2014, 12:28 AM   #31
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The statement is two years old, but it was made by the Head of Business Development, Pentax Ricoh Imaging; OTOH the "K-01 made FF" is baseless speculation. I wonder, which is worth considering?

12-09-2014, 12:55 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The statement is two years old, but it was made by the Head of Business Development, Pentax Ricoh Imaging; OTOH the "K-01 made FF" is baseless speculation. I wonder, which is worth considering?
OK. But every year that magazine does a round of interviews and every year the message is a bit different. The year before that, there was a hint that they were working on a FF mirrorless, then it was as you said. The same issue of that magazine will be on the shelves on the 20th of this month. We'll all have fun trying to translate the language, interpret what's between the lines and then we'll all start reading our own fantasies into it. It's all good entertainment. I can't wait.

Last edited by JPT; 12-09-2014 at 01:04 AM.
12-09-2014, 02:02 AM   #33
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I remember that interview, and I see how it would confuse things, but the FF MILC was entirely the interviewer's speculation. Pentax Ricoh said nothing about making a FF MILC, even though they got a bit caught in the interviewer's speculation. I guess it was too early to even make a decision.
I would rather read information, not fantasies; and hopefully we will benefit from the invaluable help of the Japanese speaking forum members
12-09-2014, 02:21 AM - 1 Like   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
which failed miserably, because an ovf is useless for manual focusing, you can't see the focusing errors.

that's why god invented oled evf displays; it's manna from heaven, for us manual focus users :-)
Not only for manual focus. If your AF is not always 100% where you want it, and your lens has quick shift, actually being able to check the focus in the VF so you can actually use the quick shift would be very handy indeed.


QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
ahead of it's time in pentaxian time, but too late in industry time... the 24mp/oled evf nex7 beat it to market by what, 9 months?

a 24mp/oled evf k01 would have been a game-changer for pentax users.
Yesss... And in a K-5 body. So at that time, actually just a mirrorless variant of the K-5. And then with those protruding lenses... Of course then everybody would have whined and complained about the fact the NEX could use many more lenses because of it's shorter registry distance.



QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
The SLRs on the late 60s and early 80's were very, very good for manual focusing. And with a proper focusing screen and viewfinder magnifier, manual focus even with an APS-C DSLR is excellent.

never forget the past there is still much to be learned from it.
Why isn't the VF good as-is right from the start when you buy the product? Imagine buying an OMD and then afterwards having to buy third party parts and doctor the OMD's viewfinder into working acceptably? Imagine how much flaming that would cause! Why the bias?

Of course I don't forget the past. Once I tried exchanging the focussing screen on my K20D. It was a terrible experience. Dust was everywhere. I discovered I needed shims and had to repeat the process later on. And when the Katseye was finally in, it wasn't all it was said to be. Still dark anyway. Moreover, it created focussing problems. I am never ever going through that process again.


But seen the bad reaction to the K-01 and the bad reaction to the A7+AF adapter, we can safely they can't do it right with the public anyway. Impossible to please everybody, so they might just as wel do exactly what suits them best.

12-09-2014, 02:30 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I remember that interview, and I see how it would confuse things, but the FF MILC was entirely the interviewer's speculation. Pentax Ricoh said nothing about making a FF MILC, even though they got a bit caught in the interviewer's speculation. I guess it was too early to even make a decision.
I would rather read information, not fantasies; and hopefully we will benefit from the invaluable help of the Japanese speaking forum members
I think that whole interview series is done on the premise that it's a personal and open discussion on the future of cameras. That's why I hesitate to read too much into it. If they changed their direction once, they could certainly have changed it again, especially if they see the hype around the Sony cameras and think, "We can do that, and we can do it better!"
12-09-2014, 02:37 AM   #36
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I sort of agree, however I remember reading about LED flash lights in an interview before the 540&360FGZ II were announced, perhaps is not just theory?
But in that first ("FF MILC") interview, the direction was pushed by the interviewer. In the one I mentioned, the answer was freely given. This is why I don't regard that "FF MILC" interview as relevant.
12-09-2014, 02:37 AM   #37
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Another more cynical interpretation is that they just talk up what they have to sell in the coming year. In that year they had DSLRs to sell and nothing much in the way of mirrorless, so that's what they wanted to talk about.

However, I do think we're going to see some pretty interesting stuff early next year. We seem to have had a fairly quiet period for new camera technology, but I can't believe the Japanese makers have slowed down on R&D, especially Canon and Ricoh. It just isn't in their nature.

---------- Post added 12-09-14 at 06:39 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I sort of agree, however I remember reading about LED flash lights in an interview before the 540&360FGZ II were announced, perhaps is not just theory?
But in that first ("FF MILC") interview, the direction was pushed by the interviewer. In the one I mentioned, the answer was freely given. This is why I don't regard that "FF MILC" interview as relevant.
It's true that he's a very "leading" interviewer. He was obviously angling for information about a mirrorless camera.

Last edited by JPT; 12-09-2014 at 08:09 AM.
12-09-2014, 03:03 AM - 1 Like   #38
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The arrival of the Sony A7 series has shown that statements like "APS-C should be the utmost size for mirrorless segment" are plain silly. There may be reasons not to produce a mirrorless camera but arbitrary statements like that aren't one of them. In any case, many mirrorless cameras are becoming more DSLR-like in shape and functionality and the latest electronics and sensors are far ahead of what was possible at the time of the K-01. Everything changes. Whatever remarks were made 2-3 years ago are out of date now and anyway, as someone has pointed out, were likely good old sales talk aimed at selling a specific product. It's hard to see any technical reason at all why Pentax or anyone else could not produce an FF mirrorless camera. My guess is that in time Sony won't be the only company which does (excluding Leica). My main concern is that whatever Pentax does produce sends a signal that they are not content to sit at a share of the camera market so small it can barely be measured or we are all toast anyway. If Ricoh can't get it together and step up to the plate in 2015 with a bit more than me-too, even if not in FF since that is far from a surefire bet, then they might as well jack it all in and go off and make lawnmowers instead.


Last edited by mecrox; 12-09-2014 at 05:49 AM.
12-09-2014, 03:18 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
The arrival of the Sony A7 series has shown that statements like "APS-C should be the utmost size for mirrorless segment" are plain silly. There may be reasons not to produce a mirrorless camera but arbitrary statements like that aren't one of them.
What makes you think it was an arbitrary statement?
Ricoh/Pentax doesn't have to follow Sony's path, so it's quite reasonable to conclude that DSLRs are still the best option for them (and for us) - while for Sony, it's obviously mirrorless.
12-09-2014, 09:30 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Not only for manual focus. If your AF is not always 100% where you want it, and your lens has quick shift, actually being able to check the focus in the VF so you can actually use the quick shift would be very handy indeed.
amen to that... and chimping the shot with an evf works much better than trying to do it with the lcd in back.

with evf magnification, you can accurately set zone focus wherever you want it; the markings on the lens barrel are obsolete, no need to guess the distance anymore.

same with exposure, the sunny16 rule is obsolete... who needs it when you have a wysiwg evf, that gives you a good idea of what the photo will look like, before you take it?

i also swapped out the focusing screen on my k10d, and it still needed shimming, but i gave up on it, and just tried to live with it.

a good k01 would have given pentaxians all of the above, with the ability to use all native pentax glass and flashes.

hopefully they will do something like that, maybe with the adapter idea that was mentioned earlier.

---------- Post added 12-09-2014 at 08:38 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
What makes you think it was an arbitrary statement?
Ricoh/Pentax doesn't have to follow Sony's path, so it's quite reasonable to conclude that DSLRs are still the best option for them (and for us) - while for Sony, it's obviously mirrorless.
dslr looks viable because it still has the lions share of camera sales in europe and the americas.

however, cipa stats prove that dslr sales are in an overall negative growth pattern, while mirrorless sales are growing.

pentax needs to get on the mirrorless gravy train at some point.
12-09-2014, 09:55 AM   #41
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QuoteQuote:
pentax needs to get on the mirrorless gravy train at some point.
That's probably where I get off the Pentax train. They will lose a lot more than they gain.
12-09-2014, 10:36 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
dslr looks viable because it still has the lions share of camera sales in europe and the americas.

however, cipa stats prove that dslr sales are in an overall negative growth pattern, while mirrorless sales are growing.

pentax needs to get on the mirrorless gravy train at some point.
DSLRs are viable because of that, and even if the current trend will continue, they will be viable for some years. MILCs are still far behind, it will take time for them to reach and surpass DSLRs - surviving (and even growing, for a low market share brand like Pentax!) on DSLRs will continue to be possible in the next years. OTOH the MILC market is already crowded with camera makers, to there's no possibility of a "first come" bonus.
Instead of abandoning everything (including us, the Pentaxians) and go full-MILC in a panic, their eventual large sensor MILC project can be more deliberate, and with a lower priority than the current next-big-thing.

Indeed, probably Pentax will have to go large sensor MILC; but right now their best choice IMO is to build on what they have, on the K-mount.

At least that's my opinion. And on a personal note, I don't want any of the EVFs currently on the market, a high quality OVF has significant advantages
12-09-2014, 11:48 AM   #43
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QuoteQuote:
Indeed, probably Pentax will have to go large sensor MILC; but right now their best choice IMO is to build on what they have, on the K-mount.
They have a 645 mount, and if they decide to go 645 MILC with 645z sensor that would be a knockout, at least in my house.
12-09-2014, 12:29 PM   #44
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That's another format, and another world from the improperly named "full frame" (i.e. the small format) discussed here.
It would be a pity to lose that viewfinder, even more than the small format one - OTOH it would benefit more by removing the larger mirror (and reducing the larger registration distance). Who knows... I guess the question is how the current customers would regard a mount change.
12-09-2014, 04:13 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
same with exposure, the sunny16 rule is obsolete... who needs it when you have a wysiwg evf, that gives you a good idea of what the photo will look like, before you take it?
Who the hell uses Sunny f/16? rule. That was intended as a rule of the thumb for negative film shooters. Negative film still has greater DR than even the best digital sensors. For me photography is about perceiving the image before you press the shutter, using a WYSIWYG EVF is a crutch, a distraction making you live for the moment, rather than think ahead a few seconds - it is a crutch for people without imagination. Anticipating events will give you a faster reaction time than waiting for events to appear in the viewfinder.

QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
i also swapped out the focusing screen on my k10d, and it still needed shimming, but i gave up on it, and just tried to live with it.
I shimmed mine, no problem.

Last edited by Digitalis; 12-09-2014 at 05:06 PM.
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