Full frame on DSLR or Mirrorless

Lakai · 12-07-2014, 03:32 AM

Now that Pentax FF is already confirmed, the question now is to which camera line do you think they should put this sensor? DSLR or Mirrorless.
IMO to both.

**Digitalis** · 12-07-2014, 03:44 AM

Does pentax have a mirrorless lens line up capable of covering a 24X36mm sensor? No. If Pentax Produces a full frame camera there is a high chance it will be in the form of an SLR.

**PJ1** · 12-07-2014, 04:20 AM

Originally posted by Digitalis

Does pentax have a mirrorless lens line up capable of covering a 24X36mm sensor? No. If Pentax Produces a full frame camera there is a high chance it will be in the form of an SLR.

The K-01 could handle the FF image circle so any FA or earlier lens could be used if they were inclined to continue down that path.

**baldeagle21b** · 12-07-2014, 04:56 AM

Originally posted by Lakai

Now that Pentax FF is already confirmed,

Confirmed by everyone except for Ricoh?

**Digitalis** · 12-07-2014, 05:18 AM

Originally posted by PJ1

The K-01 could handle the FF image circle so any FA or earlier lens could be used if they were inclined to continue down that path.

yes, however the whole concept of mirrorless was to make cameras compact the K01 was an experiment, nothing more. the K01 has enough space for a reflex mirror behind the lens mount however pentax chose to omit that, remove the entire pentaprism OVF system as well and make it a mirrorless camera.

i'm talking about real mirrorless cameras like the Leica M series with their 27.80mm flange which makes them much more compact than SLRs. The K01 had the same flange as an SLR, 45.46mm which for a mirrorless camera is completely unnecessary and defeats the purpose of making a mirrorless camera in the first place.

bobpur · 12-07-2014, 08:45 AM

I think it will be very close to a K3 just a larger hump for the pentaprism. A lot of cost could be saved in not having to remake parts.
And having a small camera was always a Pentax trademark.Then again something like an ME with a swivel screen would be cool.
look at the Nikon D300 and D700 for example.

**Kerrowdown** · 12-07-2014, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by Lakai

Now that Pentax FF is already confirmed

Did I miss that Pentax announcement? as much as I would like it to be true.

**RuiC** · 12-07-2014, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by Digitalis

i'm talking about real mirrorless cameras like the Leica M series with their 27.80mm flange which makes them much more compact than SLRs. The K01 had the same flange as an SLR, 45.46mm which for a mirrorless camera is completely unnecessary and defeats the purpose of making a mirrorless camera in the first place.

Yes, no need for that flange for a mirrorless, but you must understand that they needed to unless they produced a completely new lens line, just because the K-mount needs that 45.46 flange.

bxf · 12-07-2014, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by RuiC

Yes, no need for that flange for a mirrorless, but you must understand that they needed to unless they produced a completely new lens line, just because the K-mount needs that 45.46 flange.

I have a very strong feeling that Digitalis does understand

**RuiC** · 12-07-2014, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by bxf

I have a very strong feeling that Digitalis does understand

**Digitalis** · 12-07-2014, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by RuiC

you must understand that they needed to unless they produced a completely new lens line, just because the K-mount needs that 45.46 flange.

If pentax went mirrorless they would have to shrug off the K mount, and develop a new line of lenses suited to a short flange more appropriate for a mirorless system. Building a flagship FF mirrorless camera but using a flange distance equal to that of an SLR would probably be one of the dumbest things ever done so far in the history of digital photography.

ElJamoquio · 12-07-2014, 03:51 PM

I think building an APS-C mirrorless with that flange distance is worse.

**Digitalis** · 12-07-2014, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

think building an APS-C mirrorless with that flange distance is worse.

well Pentax has already done it..

JPT · 12-07-2014, 04:36 PM

I think we should be prepared for either eventuality, I think there's sense in both. However, I can see why mirror less might be more attractive to Ricoh.

Firstly, the DSLR market doesn't seem very strong, even compared to cameras as a whole, which aren't doing very well themselves. By the time Ricoh has built up a competitive lens line up, will anyone be in the market for a DSLR at all?

A slightly different angle to think about it is who could you reasonably expect to buy a full frame DSLR? Certainly a few thousand on this forum, probably more than that in Japan, but that's certainly not enough. Ricoh would have to hope that some of the deserters to Canikon come back and they would also have to hope that brand agnostic shoppers would choose Pentax over the competitors, who have very strong offerings. Sony's A7 shows there is a market for FF mirror less. If Ricoh can do it better and offer more attractive lenses, they have a real chance.

On the other hand, we don't know how much sentimental attachment Ricoh has to K-mount. Japanese companies can be surprisingly sentimental about their heritage, so that may influence them too.

Ultimately, I think I'd be happier to see a mirrorless because I think it has a better chance of success. If you believe that DSLR are on their way out, then having a good mirrorless camera with a same brand adapter ensures that your lenses will be usable in years to come.

rawr · 12-07-2014, 05:57 PM - **2 Likes**

I think Pentax should make their first steps into FF as a conventional DSLR, maybe akin to a D750. It's simpler, they know how to build them, lots of stuff (lenses etc) will just work, there may even be some production efficiencies, and that's what a lot of people want to buy. And DSLR's don't seem to be dying anytime soon - the D750 seems to be a great hit, as is the new Canon 7D2.

Then release mirrorless - maybe a FF, maybe just another APS-C, maybe both (like Sony). Perhaps really do something super-efficient with the design of the body too, to allow conventional K-mount to live happily on the body without it being as boxy as the K-01.

12-07-2014, 03:32 AM	#1
Lakai Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Photos: Albums Posts: 47	Full frame on DSLR or Mirrorless Now that Pentax FF is already confirmed, the question now is to which camera line do you think they should put this sensor? DSLR or Mirrorless. IMO to both.

12-07-2014, 04:36 PM	#14
JPT Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Tokyo Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,821	I think we should be prepared for either eventuality, I think there's sense in both. However, I can see why mirror less might be more attractive to Ricoh. Firstly, the DSLR market doesn't seem very strong, even compared to cameras as a whole, which aren't doing very well themselves. By the time Ricoh has built up a competitive lens line up, will anyone be in the market for a DSLR at all? A slightly different angle to think about it is who could you reasonably expect to buy a full frame DSLR? Certainly a few thousand on this forum, probably more than that in Japan, but that's certainly not enough. Ricoh would have to hope that some of the deserters to Canikon come back and they would also have to hope that brand agnostic shoppers would choose Pentax over the competitors, who have very strong offerings. Sony's A7 shows there is a market for FF mirror less. If Ricoh can do it better and offer more attractive lenses, they have a real chance. On the other hand, we don't know how much sentimental attachment Ricoh has to K-mount. Japanese companies can be surprisingly sentimental about their heritage, so that may influence them too. Ultimately, I think I'd be happier to see a mirrorless because I think it has a better chance of success. If you believe that DSLR are on their way out, then having a good mirrorless camera with a same brand adapter ensures that your lenses will be usable in years to come. Last edited by JPT; 12-08-2014 at 03:25 AM.

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12-07-2014, 03:44 AM	#2
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Does pentax have a mirrorless lens line up capable of covering a 24X36mm sensor? No. If Pentax Produces a full frame camera there is a high chance it will be in the form of an SLR.

12-07-2014, 04:20 AM	#3
PJ1 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Toowoomba, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,484	Originally posted by Digitalis Does pentax have a mirrorless lens line up capable of covering a 24X36mm sensor? No. If Pentax Produces a full frame camera there is a high chance it will be in the form of an SLR. The K-01 could handle the FF image circle so any FA or earlier lens could be used if they were inclined to continue down that path.

12-07-2014, 04:56 AM	#4
baldeagle21b Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 223	Originally posted by Lakai Now that Pentax FF is already confirmed, Confirmed by everyone except for Ricoh?

12-07-2014, 05:18 AM	#5
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by PJ1 The K-01 could handle the FF image circle so any FA or earlier lens could be used if they were inclined to continue down that path. yes, however the whole concept of mirrorless was to make cameras compact the K01 was an experiment, nothing more. the K01 has enough space for a reflex mirror behind the lens mount however pentax chose to omit that, remove the entire pentaprism OVF system as well and make it a mirrorless camera. i'm talking about real mirrorless cameras like the Leica M series with their 27.80mm flange which makes them much more compact than SLRs. The K01 had the same flange as an SLR, 45.46mm which for a mirrorless camera is completely unnecessary and defeats the purpose of making a mirrorless camera in the first place.

12-07-2014, 08:45 AM	#6
bobpur Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 328	I think it will be very close to a K3 just a larger hump for the pentaprism. A lot of cost could be saved in not having to remake parts. And having a small camera was always a Pentax trademark.Then again something like an ME with a swivel screen would be cool. look at the Nikon D300 and D700 for example.

12-07-2014, 09:34 AM	#7
Kerrowdown PEG Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highlands of Scotland... "Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand" - William Blake Photos: Gallery Posts: 57,819	Originally posted by Lakai Now that Pentax FF is already confirmed Did I miss that Pentax announcement? as much as I would like it to be true.

12-07-2014, 09:40 AM	#8
RuiC Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Lisboa - The best destination in Europe Posts: 633	Originally posted by Digitalis i'm talking about real mirrorless cameras like the Leica M series with their 27.80mm flange which makes them much more compact than SLRs. The K01 had the same flange as an SLR, 45.46mm which for a mirrorless camera is completely unnecessary and defeats the purpose of making a mirrorless camera in the first place. Yes, no need for that flange for a mirrorless, but you must understand that they needed to unless they produced a completely new lens line, just because the K-mount needs that 45.46 flange.

12-07-2014, 10:03 AM	#9
bxf Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Lisbon area Posts: 1,660	Originally posted by RuiC Yes, no need for that flange for a mirrorless, but you must understand that they needed to unless they produced a completely new lens line, just because the K-mount needs that 45.46 flange. I have a very strong feeling that Digitalis does understand

12-07-2014, 10:23 AM	#10
RuiC Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Lisboa - The best destination in Europe Posts: 633	Originally posted by bxf I have a very strong feeling that Digitalis does understand

12-07-2014, 03:49 PM	#11
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by RuiC you must understand that they needed to unless they produced a completely new lens line, just because the K-mount needs that 45.46 flange. If pentax went mirrorless they would have to shrug off the K mount, and develop a new line of lenses suited to a short flange more appropriate for a mirorless system. Building a flagship FF mirrorless camera but using a flange distance equal to that of an SLR would probably be one of the dumbest things ever done so far in the history of digital photography.

12-07-2014, 03:51 PM	#12
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	I think building an APS-C mirrorless with that flange distance is worse.

12-07-2014, 03:52 PM	#13
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by ElJamoquio think building an APS-C mirrorless with that flange distance is worse. well Pentax has already done it..

12-07-2014, 05:57 PM - 2 Likes	#15
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	I think Pentax should make their first steps into FF as a conventional DSLR, maybe akin to a D750. It's simpler, they know how to build them, lots of stuff (lenses etc) will just work, there may even be some production efficiencies, and that's what a lot of people want to buy. And DSLR's don't seem to be dying anytime soon - the D750 seems to be a great hit, as is the new Canon 7D2. Then release mirrorless - maybe a FF, maybe just another APS-C, maybe both (like Sony). Perhaps really do something super-efficient with the design of the body too, to allow conventional K-mount to live happily on the body without it being as boxy as the K-01.