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12-30-2014, 02:59 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
I'm fine with the 'new'. I was never speaking of anything EXCEPT 'new'. Prices in the used market might be relevant to some but less so in the public-at-large outside of specialty forums like this one.

If you think people aren't going to cross-shop the A7 against the A7II or whatever the new Pentax is, I think you're under-estimating the ability of the public to optimize the value of their dollar.

And, no, I disagree completely with your assessment that MSRP's is more relevant than street price. On the contrary, I believe that the MSRP is a fantasy price that doesn't matter to anyone.


Today, you can purchase a brand-new full frame camera for $1298. Wow. That's $200 less than $1500. So when is the first brand new sub-$1k FF camera going to be sold? I heard that FF cameras wouldn't be sold for less than $2k.
The camera will be launched on a market crowded with lots of products, brand new, older but still sold as new and second hand - there will be cross shopping between all of them I guess. Competing on price will be impossible, there will always be a cheaper camera.

The MSRP is the initial street price for which products are sold, so your assertion is funny. And how could I talk late street prices for a camera we hope it might be announced next year? No, it's too early even for MSRP talks. Except to recognize it won't be the cheapest

Besides, there's a big disadvantage of only looking for "the cheapest price": it will get you the cheapest camera Good luck waiting for the Sony's first under $1000 twice replaced camera (A7 in another year, I'd guess); I'm waiting - and willing to pay - for a proper Pentax DSLR

12-30-2014, 03:27 PM   #32
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If we were talking about a Full Frame camera launched in 2013 or early 2014 it would make sense to compare the two street prices then.

As Pentax does not have a time machine, it should be compared to street prices now.

My original assertion remains correct by any reasonable definition - Full Frame is now an inexpensive technology. Pentax cannot ignore it as 'above' the price range of Pentax's customers.
12-30-2014, 03:49 PM   #33
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I see things a bit differently - we could compare street prices of similarly aged cameras, but not brand new (i.e. MSRP) vs. replaced&discounted.

Anyway, I think this is getting too long, and we risk losing any point we're trying to make in details. I'm sure the Pentax FF won't be the cheapest, and I'd actually like the quality and features associated with a higher-level camera. OTOH, I agree with the point you're trying to make - Ricoh/Pentax should not ignore the entry to mid-level "FF" market (with higher margins than what could be made from APS-C).
The only difference is that I'm talking about double your price.
12-30-2014, 06:33 PM - 1 Like   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by pudser Quote
SO.....I have taken the plunge and sold off all my APS-C Lens and K3 in anticipation of the elusive Full Frame finally arriving in the new year. I can wait a little because i have bought into the Sony FF e-mount system (an amazing line of cameras btw) but i will always keep a foot in the Pentax camp due to its unique characteristics and, frankly, nostalgia. Pentax was my first adventure into photography as a serious hobby and I love the colour rendition and the quality of the glass. Therefore i have retained my FA* 28mm-70mm, FA* 80-200MM, A* 15mm, A 300mm 2.8 and, of course, fabulous Limited duo the FA 31MM F1.8 & the FA 77MM F1.8 (plus a couple of teleconverters) all waiting for the highly anticipated FF camera. We have waited so long for this, its gotta be a killer cam!!! And, frankly, i like what Ricoh are doing with the company. They have some genuine photography kudos! (i have the GXR with m-mount module and a GR!, love 'em). Is anyone else preparing for the (hopefully)imminent arrival?????
Wow! You are a brave man ... and a gambling man! You should come to my State of Nevada and visit the local casinos. I would have kept my gear but you have a FF Sony system to use in the meantime. Me? I'd have my Q and my film systems.

01-15-2015, 06:30 PM   #35
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>>I see things a bit differently - we could compare street prices of similarly aged cameras, but not brand new (i.e. MSRP) vs. replaced&discounted.

Generally agree, but in this case if released this year at all, the pentax brand new camera will most likely have the same sensor inside as the replaced&discontinued sony camera ...+ k-3's electronics which are now couple of years old as well. So pretty much same generation tech inside both.
01-15-2015, 06:49 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by npc Quote
>>I see things a bit differently - we could compare street prices of similarly aged cameras, but not brand new (i.e. MSRP) vs. replaced&discounted.

Generally agree, but in this case if released this year at all, the pentax brand new camera will most likely have the same sensor inside as the replaced&discontinued sony camera ...+ k-3's electronics which are now couple of years old as well. So pretty much same generation tech inside both.
That's pretty cynical, Pentax has said, they have a surprise coming with the FF. SO we're either going to see something unique, or we are not going to see anything
01-16-2015, 06:25 PM - 1 Like   #37
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Enough of this pointless back and forth for a moment.. Have you considered that maybe you don't get a new Pentax Full Frame and, instead, Ricoh spends the money etching 'Pentax' on the moon? That way you get a Pentax Full Moon 'released' every month which you can photograph with your nice APS-C camera! You can even use the full frame of your APS-C to capture the image!
01-16-2015, 07:23 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
That's pretty cynical, Pentax has said, they have a surprise coming with the FF. SO we're either going to see something unique, or we are not going to see anything
They've waited this long. One would think they could wait just a few more months.*



* Story going around that there is a significant FW Update for K-3 and 645 coming April/May. I wonder . . . . . .
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01-17-2015, 04:30 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
That's pretty cynical, Pentax has said, they have a surprise coming with the FF. SO we're either going to see something unique, or we are not going to see anything
Full frame R&D has apparently taken longer than anticipated, hence the long delay, so come CP+ we should be seeing something different, some new tech (although they might not tell us all the details straight away). If we don't see this new tech, then I'm sure a 'normal' FF offering will still work exceptionally well!!
01-17-2015, 06:28 AM - 1 Like   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by fuzzyfelt30 Quote
Full frame R&D has apparently taken longer than anticipated, hence the long delay, so come CP+ we should be seeing something different, some new tech (although they might not tell us all the details straight away). If we don't see this new tech, then I'm sure a 'normal' FF offering will still work exceptionally well!!
And the cynical should also point out that "unique" is market speak for "the same as everyone else with a little do dah on the side".
01-17-2015, 10:33 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
a little do dah on the side
Ooooh can't wait for one of those....

Can they be retro fitted?
01-17-2015, 02:39 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kerrowdown Quote
Ooooh can't wait for one of those....

Can they be retro fitted?
Yes, but they never perform quite as well as if they were factory installed.
01-27-2015, 11:05 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
That's pretty cynical, Pentax has said, they have a surprise coming with the FF. SO we're either going to see something unique, or we are not going to see anything
A body with a FF sensor setup similar to the Sony A7II would fit right in to the Pentax philosophy of internal stabilization.
01-27-2015, 02:44 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Yes, but they never perform quite as well as if they were factory installed
I still think I'm going for it... a little do dah on the side is like having a Mistress, oh damn I've already got one of those with my SMC Pentax-A 15mm F3.5.
01-27-2015, 02:58 PM   #45
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We are likely to see the rumored 50mp FF Sony mirrorless before a FF Pentax. That may be my next body.
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