Full Frame news

**monochrome** · 01-29-2015, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by civiletti

We are likely to see the rumored 50mp FF Sony mirrorless before a FF Pentax. That may be my next body.

So the Sony is out in a few weeks then, eh?

**Pål Jensen** · 01-29-2015, 03:47 PM

If the Pentax is 50mp I'll buy it....

normhead · 01-29-2015, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

If the Pentax is 50mp I'll buy it....

I was kind of hoping for 30 MP in the Pentax FF, and 20 Mp for APS-c. At least Pentax made a 20 Mp APS-c for me.
There are now about 20 distinct sensors available for Full Frames in 3 different categories, and Pentax is going to release 1. I guess that will give them a fair shot at making inroads into 5% of the FF market, which is about 10% of the DSLR market which is about 20% of the camera market. I'm just making up numbers here, but what ever the real numbers are, they don't have much of an opportunity to make an impact. Whatever they come up with, they'll be missing more of the market than they hit. Maybe they can use all 3 of those Sony A7 sensors... and at least cover more bases.

**Pål Jensen** · 01-29-2015, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by GeneV

A body with a FF sensor setup similar to the Sony A7II would fit right in to the Pentax philosophy of internal stabilization.

I'm pretty sure the shown FF lenses have optical stabilization...

RonHendriks1966 · 01-30-2015, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

If the Pentax is 50mp I'll buy it....

I'm passing on that 50mp.

normhead · 01-30-2015, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

I'm passing on that 50mp.

If I'm buying, I'm buying for low light performance.... 50 MP has nothing to do with it. I'll get a Sony A7s, or 645z if that's what it takes. Buy for spec, not for name or MP. And if you don't get a spec that extends your range in some way... why buy?

kooks · 01-30-2015, 01:11 PM

24mp.. or even 36mp.. THATS IT.. 50MP is most of the time a waste of space and resouces.. but a 36mp is quite a nice amount

Jyrkira · 01-30-2015, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by Raffwal

IF the mystical FF Pentax is ever coming, I'm pretty sure it will not be initially even close to that price point. They wouldn't be competing with the big names but rather providing a niche product or one for the long time (desperate) K mount users. MSRP $2200, street $2000.

I agree.

The first Pentax FF does not need to compete on price.

There are a lot of Pentax users having thousands on FF lenses. Like set of FA limiteds + FA*24 + D FA 100 Macro + F*/FA*/DA* 300 etc. It does not matter if the FF body costs below $2000 or not
when they can finally buy a Pentax camera that fully support they lenses worth of thousands.

IsaacT · 02-01-2015, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by kooks

24mp.. or even 36mp.. THATS IT.. 50MP is most of the time a waste of space and resouces.. but a 36mp is quite a nice amount

Why do people stress out about space so much? Memory is pretty cheap all around. To get 2 Terabytes of storage you will pay what? 120 bucks? I don't see why many people want to shun higher amounts of resolution simply to conserve some space.

I had a guy come into my work and demand a 0.3 megapixel sensor camera so that he doesn't have to use much space. 0.3? Seriously? I understand this isn't that intense, but if the only reason for not wanting higher resolution is a storage issue that seems a little odd to me.

GeneV · 02-01-2015, 08:48 PM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

I'm pretty sure the shown FF lenses have optical stabilization...

I am talking about Pentax lenses, none of which has OS.

tromboads · 02-01-2015, 11:55 PM

Originally posted by kooks

24mp.. or even 36mp.. THATS IT.. 50MP is most of the time a waste of space and resouces.. but a 36mp is quite a nice amount

That's what the said about 6mp sensors too you know

Toys Toys Toys.

Toys are fun.

drypenn · 02-02-2015, 12:14 AM

Originally posted by IsaacT

Why do people stress out about space so much? Memory is pretty cheap all around. To get 2 Terabytes of storage you will pay what? 120 bucks? I don't see why many people want to shun higher amounts of resolution simply to conserve some space.

I had a guy come into my work and demand a 0.3 megapixel sensor camera so that he doesn't have to use much space. 0.3? Seriously? I understand this isn't that intense, but if the only reason for not wanting higher resolution is a storage issue that seems a little odd to me.

Agree with Storage being cheap, BUT PROCESSING SPEED is not and migration is cumbersome.

kooks · 02-02-2015, 12:24 AM

Originally posted by IsaacT

Why do people stress out about space so much? Memory is pretty cheap all around. To get 2 Terabytes of storage you will pay what? 120 bucks? I don't see why many people want to shun higher amounts of resolution simply to conserve some space.

I had a guy come into my work and demand a 0.3 megapixel sensor camera so that he doesn't have to use much space. 0.3? Seriously? I understand this isn't that intense, but if the only reason for not wanting higher resolution is a storage issue that seems a little odd to me.

Is not just about storage, as you said, the thing here is.. are the 50MP bringing better IMAGE QUALITY?? or will it help just to make bigger prints?? .. cuz APS-C 24mp are pushing the limits of APS-C, and did it give better IQ than 16Mp sensors.. for example is the IQ of the K5iis better than the K3?? mmmmmm thats quite not true, at least not so noticible. So will the 50MP sensor bring better IQ than a cheaper 36MP?? i dont think so .. Besides, 50MP is ment to push the limits of FF sensor in order to get closer to what a MF camera can deliver.. Pentax already have a MF so.. why to do so?? .. isnt it better to have 3 good sensors.. for example a high end APS-C with 24MP.. a FF with 36MP and a MF with 50MP ??

Storage is cheap.. but file handling is not only about storage, is how the programs handle thsi files CPU RAM, etc, as bigger the file, slower the processing.. 10 15 20 images open will slow down the workflow.. and sacrifice that in order to receive the same IQ than a 36mp sensor?? no thanks.

its like the stupid celphone war about wich celphone have the biggest MP camera... wtf.. a 20MP little tiny sensor to what.. share the images at FB.. haha..

6BQ5 · 02-02-2015, 01:19 PM

Storage is indeed cheap. I bought two 64 GB Sony branded SD cards for $50. That's ~$0.40 per GB. Cheap.

Processing time increases for more data but processing technology is not stagnant. Clock rates are getting higher, algorithms are becoming more efficient, and batteries are able to provide more power than before. I think the trend toward "bigger" cannot be stopped.

The question really becomes what is the practical benefit. Am I buying a rocket for commuting 7 miles to work when I could be using a simple gas sipping car? Assuming the lens is good, high MP sensors allow cropping while maintaining high resolution for large prints. You can also down-sample high resolution images to smaller sizes for averaging out noise. Both of these points can be seen in an extreme comparison between 6 MP and 24 MP.

Maybe for the average user or enthusiast a 16 or 24 MP sensor may be enough. Beyond that you may not be enabling much extra for yourself. I was generally very happy with 16 MP in my K-30 and my Q in 2:3 cropping gave a very pleasant 10 MP. Both systems gave me very pleasant 8"x12" prints. However, I won't turn away a K-3's 24 MP sensor even if those pixels aren't exactly required for that size of print.

IsaacT · 02-02-2015, 01:45 PM

As someone looking to make the occasional large wall print (3ft x 4ft or more) I would love to have some extra breathing room.

01-30-2015, 10:56 AM	#51
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 I'm passing on that 50mp. If I'm buying, I'm buying for low light performance.... 50 MP has nothing to do with it. I'll get a Sony A7s, or 645z if that's what it takes. Buy for spec, not for name or MP. And if you don't get a spec that extends your range in some way... why buy? Last edited by normhead; 01-30-2015 at 11:17 AM.

02-02-2015, 12:14 AM	#57
drypenn Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Photos: Albums Posts: 963	Originally posted by IsaacT Why do people stress out about space so much? Memory is pretty cheap all around. To get 2 Terabytes of storage you will pay what? 120 bucks? I don't see why many people want to shun higher amounts of resolution simply to conserve some space. I had a guy come into my work and demand a 0.3 megapixel sensor camera so that he doesn't have to use much space. 0.3? Seriously? I understand this isn't that intense, but if the only reason for not wanting higher resolution is a storage issue that seems a little odd to me. Agree with Storage being cheap, BUT PROCESSING SPEED is not and migration is cumbersome. Last edited by drypenn; 02-02-2015 at 12:20 AM.

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01-29-2015, 03:41 PM	#46
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by civiletti We are likely to see the rumored 50mp FF Sony mirrorless before a FF Pentax. That may be my next body. So the Sony is out in a few weeks then, eh?

01-29-2015, 03:47 PM	#47
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	If the Pentax is 50mp I'll buy it....

01-29-2015, 04:01 PM	#48
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Pål Jensen If the Pentax is 50mp I'll buy it.... I was kind of hoping for 30 MP in the Pentax FF, and 20 Mp for APS-c. At least Pentax made a 20 Mp APS-c for me. There are now about 20 distinct sensors available for Full Frames in 3 different categories, and Pentax is going to release 1. I guess that will give them a fair shot at making inroads into 5% of the FF market, which is about 10% of the DSLR market which is about 20% of the camera market. I'm just making up numbers here, but what ever the real numbers are, they don't have much of an opportunity to make an impact. Whatever they come up with, they'll be missing more of the market than they hit. Maybe they can use all 3 of those Sony A7 sensors... and at least cover more bases.

01-29-2015, 04:22 PM	#49
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by GeneV A body with a FF sensor setup similar to the Sony A7II would fit right in to the Pentax philosophy of internal stabilization. I'm pretty sure the shown FF lenses have optical stabilization...

01-30-2015, 10:13 AM	#50
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by Pål Jensen If the Pentax is 50mp I'll buy it.... I'm passing on that 50mp.

01-30-2015, 01:11 PM	#52
kooks Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: San José, Costa Rica Photos: Albums Posts: 794	24mp.. or even 36mp.. THATS IT.. 50MP is most of the time a waste of space and resouces.. but a 36mp is quite a nice amount

01-30-2015, 03:53 PM	#53
Jyrkira Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Finland Posts: 215	Originally posted by Raffwal IF the mystical FF Pentax is ever coming, I'm pretty sure it will not be initially even close to that price point. They wouldn't be competing with the big names but rather providing a niche product or one for the long time (desperate) K mount users. MSRP $2200, street $2000. I agree. The first Pentax FF does not need to compete on price. There are a lot of Pentax users having thousands on FF lenses. Like set of FA limiteds + FA24 + D FA 100 Macro + F/FA/DA 300 etc. It does not matter if the FF body costs below $2000 or not when they can finally buy a Pentax camera that fully support they lenses worth of thousands.

02-01-2015, 08:18 PM	#54
IsaacT Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 123	Originally posted by kooks 24mp.. or even 36mp.. THATS IT.. 50MP is most of the time a waste of space and resouces.. but a 36mp is quite a nice amount Why do people stress out about space so much? Memory is pretty cheap all around. To get 2 Terabytes of storage you will pay what? 120 bucks? I don't see why many people want to shun higher amounts of resolution simply to conserve some space. I had a guy come into my work and demand a 0.3 megapixel sensor camera so that he doesn't have to use much space. 0.3? Seriously? I understand this isn't that intense, but if the only reason for not wanting higher resolution is a storage issue that seems a little odd to me.

02-01-2015, 08:48 PM	#55
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by Pål Jensen I'm pretty sure the shown FF lenses have optical stabilization... I am talking about Pentax lenses, none of which has OS.

02-01-2015, 11:55 PM	#56
tromboads Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Melbs Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,240	Originally posted by kooks 24mp.. or even 36mp.. THATS IT.. 50MP is most of the time a waste of space and resouces.. but a 36mp is quite a nice amount That's what the said about 6mp sensors too you know Toys Toys Toys. Toys are fun.

02-02-2015, 12:24 AM	#58
kooks Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: San José, Costa Rica Photos: Albums Posts: 794	Originally posted by IsaacT Why do people stress out about space so much? Memory is pretty cheap all around. To get 2 Terabytes of storage you will pay what? 120 bucks? I don't see why many people want to shun higher amounts of resolution simply to conserve some space. I had a guy come into my work and demand a 0.3 megapixel sensor camera so that he doesn't have to use much space. 0.3? Seriously? I understand this isn't that intense, but if the only reason for not wanting higher resolution is a storage issue that seems a little odd to me. Is not just about storage, as you said, the thing here is.. are the 50MP bringing better IMAGE QUALITY?? or will it help just to make bigger prints?? .. cuz APS-C 24mp are pushing the limits of APS-C, and did it give better IQ than 16Mp sensors.. for example is the IQ of the K5iis better than the K3?? mmmmmm thats quite not true, at least not so noticible. So will the 50MP sensor bring better IQ than a cheaper 36MP?? i dont think so .. Besides, 50MP is ment to push the limits of FF sensor in order to get closer to what a MF camera can deliver.. Pentax already have a MF so.. why to do so?? .. isnt it better to have 3 good sensors.. for example a high end APS-C with 24MP.. a FF with 36MP and a MF with 50MP ?? Storage is cheap.. but file handling is not only about storage, is how the programs handle thsi files CPU RAM, etc, as bigger the file, slower the processing.. 10 15 20 images open will slow down the workflow.. and sacrifice that in order to receive the same IQ than a 36mp sensor?? no thanks. its like the stupid celphone war about wich celphone have the biggest MP camera... wtf.. a 20MP little tiny sensor to what.. share the images at FB.. haha..

02-02-2015, 01:19 PM	#59
6BQ5 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Nevada, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,348	Storage is indeed cheap. I bought two 64 GB Sony branded SD cards for $50. That's ~$0.40 per GB. Cheap. Processing time increases for more data but processing technology is not stagnant. Clock rates are getting higher, algorithms are becoming more efficient, and batteries are able to provide more power than before. I think the trend toward "bigger" cannot be stopped. The question really becomes what is the practical benefit. Am I buying a rocket for commuting 7 miles to work when I could be using a simple gas sipping car? Assuming the lens is good, high MP sensors allow cropping while maintaining high resolution for large prints. You can also down-sample high resolution images to smaller sizes for averaging out noise. Both of these points can be seen in an extreme comparison between 6 MP and 24 MP. Maybe for the average user or enthusiast a 16 or 24 MP sensor may be enough. Beyond that you may not be enabling much extra for yourself. I was generally very happy with 16 MP in my K-30 and my Q in 2:3 cropping gave a very pleasant 10 MP. Both systems gave me very pleasant 8"x12" prints. However, I won't turn away a K-3's 24 MP sensor even if those pixels aren't exactly required for that size of print.

02-02-2015, 01:45 PM	#60
IsaacT Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 123	As someone looking to make the occasional large wall print (3ft x 4ft or more) I would love to have some extra breathing room.