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12-29-2014, 09:41 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
My guess is not well. And not just because it is Pentax. I think a lot of retailers are re-evaluating the camera business based on declining sales versus the cost of holding expensive gear in inventory.

For example my local Best Buy just re-arranged the store (again) and the camera section shrunk by about 1/3. And our local grocery / other store which always had a fairly good sized camera section completely eliminated it. The whole section was replaced with a display of internet connected home security and monitoring devices.

I think it will be a very tough sell to get retailers to add another brand to a category they are shrinking.
So perhaps Ricoh/Pentax marketing team is not that wrong when they bet for internet sells and not that much for local retailers.. mmmmm .. More and more people is buying their stuffs online because of price so that could be the reason why local retailers are reducing their camera sections.... i guess..

12-29-2014, 10:29 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
My guess is not well. And not just because it is Pentax. I think a lot of retailers are re-evaluating the camera business based on declining sales versus the cost of holding expensive gear in inventory.

For example my local Best Buy just re-arranged the store (again) and the camera section shrunk by about 1/3. And our local grocery / other store which always had a fairly good sized camera section completely eliminated it. The whole section was replaced with a display of internet connected home security and monitoring devices.

I think it will be a very tough sell to get retailers to add another brand to a category they are shrinking.
I would say you're right. I note that up here in Canada, a number of retailers have closed branches in the past year...to the extent I have never before witnessed. in the past 50 years.

I've also noticed a couple of camera specialty companies have dropped Pentax, after selling the make for the camera stores entire history.

I do wonder what the business (dedicated camera retail establishments) and which camera manufacturers will survive, within the next five years.
12-30-2014, 08:01 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
I would say you're right. I note that up here in Canada, a number of retailers have closed branches in the past year...to the extent I have never before witnessed. in the past 50 years.

I've also noticed a couple of camera specialty companies have dropped Pentax, after selling the make for the camera stores entire history.

I do wonder what the business (dedicated camera retail establishments) and which camera manufacturers will survive, within the next five years.
The consumer specialty stores are rapidly disappearing. The markets that are large enough to support a large professional community can still support local stores, but there are a lot fewer of them. I live in a market where TV/Film/Music/Sports are all strong and we have a store that focuses on the professional market.

Canon, Nikon, & Sony all have pretty high volume requirements for the local store to be a dealer. My local store only carries Canon & Nikon because of the volume they are required to do. They have tried to work with Sony, but they only want the A7 line since they have no demand for the A-mount line. They have added a 4' section of Fuji X-mount products and they have been selling very well. Fuji doesn't have a high minimum purchase requirement.

They have not carried Pentax in over 10 years. They haven't seen a Pentax rep in 10 years. They don't even know who to call if they wanted to be a Pentax dealer. I live in one of the largest cities in the USA (Top 25).

One of the complaints that the guys at the pro-shop have is that many people come in to handle cameras and then go online and buy. IF Pentax has no physical presence then they loose all of those buyers automatically.
12-30-2014, 09:32 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
How well do you think that Ricoh will do...rounding up new dealers ?
How well did Enterprise Rent-A-Car do at airports against Hertz and Avis, even though their product, price and service was much better than the big two?

12-30-2014, 11:44 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
So perhaps Ricoh/Pentax marketing team is not that wrong when they bet for internet sells and not that much for local retailers.. mmmmm .. More and more people is buying their stuffs online because of price so that could be the reason why local retailers are reducing their camera sections.... i guess..
MAP isn't consistent with that. Inconsistencies from Pentax USA are not surprising, though.

---------- Post added 12-30-14 at 01:52 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by ClinchShots Quote
#ItsComing
What is? Do you know the date of the apocalypse? #EveryoneIsDoomed
12-30-2014, 12:33 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
How well did Enterprise Rent-A-Car do at airports against Hertz and Avis, even though their product, price and service was much better than the big two?
Don't know. I don't rent cars.
12-30-2014, 01:30 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
So perhaps Ricoh/Pentax marketing team is not that wrong when they bet for internet sells and not that much for local retailers..
That philosophy was actually the Hoya marketing plan. Ricoh has made it very clear they want to get back into the brick and mortar stores and reverse the reliance on internet sales.

However, once those stores removed Pentax from the shelves and put something else there it is very, very hard to get them to now clear space again for Pentax. Especially since it seems that the total amount of space devoted to cameras is actually shrinking. Sales space is precious and costs a lot of money, in rent if nothing else, so each square foot has to earn money. I think it will be very difficult to convince retailers to shrink space dedicated to an existing brand that is selling and give that space to a brand that only a few years ago essentially abandoned them. Why would they do that? Especially if the volume of the category as a whole is shrinking. And of course there are far less retail camera stores in existence now than there were even a few years ago.

A very tough situation to be in for Ricoh. There are some avenues to explore though:
  • Non-traditional retailers such as Cabela's or Field & Stream or Bass Pro Shops. Honestly surprised they have not gone at this full force. These are major volume retailers that do not do a lot of camera stuff. WR is perfect for the customers shopping there.
  • Do the Apple thing and open their own boutique shops in malls or wherever. Very expensive and risky but if they have the dollars to lose money on it for 4-5 years it might pay off.
  • Do their own internet sales. Not the pathetic web sales site they farm out to someone but the real deal with lots of learning classes, video's, lectures from pro photogs and so on. Form a real community that revolves around photography using Pentax gear. Sales and support built in. Everything one stop. Forum, learning, sales, repair. Put a real face on the internet for Pentax. Expensive and will require a lot of work, but if they get no traction in retail stores might be a different way to go.
  • Partner with B&H and Adorama, and I suppose others but those are the ones I know of, by renting or buying display space in their stores.
12-30-2014, 01:46 PM   #38
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All I can say is all of you begging for this full frame better buy the thing when it comes out.

12-30-2014, 02:08 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kenntak Quote
All I can say is all of you begging for this full frame better buy the thing when it comes out.
+1,000 on that!!
Because if it does not sell, that will be it for Pentax FF, we will be looking at another k-01.

Personally it will have to be something very special to motivate me to buy it in 2015. I am very happy with the k-3 and do not plan on getting a new camera until 2016 or later. But if they come up with something I can justify I might go for it. But just FF to say I shoot FF is not going to make it worth my while, it will have to clearly improve my photographs.
12-30-2014, 02:34 PM   #40
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Your observations above regarding a different retailing philosophy are the best ideas I've thought of and talked about. They are, however, prohibitively expensive for our market. Ricoh really is in a Catch-22 situation here - they can't do the things they really know they should do until revenue increases - and they can't increase revenue until they do the things they really know they should do. It is abundantly clear to me that Canon / Nikon have erected an impenetrable barrier to entry for another traditional dSLR maker. Ricoh will not provide competing Dealer Agreements and Dealer Financing (Pentax abandoned that model 20 years ago) supported by consumer advertising. It truly is a conundrum.
QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
just FF to say I shoot FF is not going to make it worth my while
It isn't just the FF body - it will be a couple more lenses, a new computer, new software, a new printer, probably better supplies and all the things that go with the improved image quality necessary to make the FF camera useful at the end product.

As it is I am challenged to use the capability of the K-3 - the K-01 is about my ceiling.
12-30-2014, 02:59 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Ricoh really is in a Catch-22 situation here - they can't do the things they really know they should do until revenue increases - and they can't increase revenue until they do the things they really know they should do. It is abundantly clear to me that Canon / Nikon have erected an impenetrable barrier to entry for another traditional dSLR maker.
Agree, so either they muddle along with what they are doing or do something bold out of the box. I'm betting on muddling along with more of the same. I just do not think North America is a priority for them. As you note, just too hard and too expensive to make any significant gains here. The real tell for this is that Pentax USA seems to be uninformed and generally out of the loop as to what the home office is doing.
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
It isn't just the FF body - it will be a couple more lenses, a new computer, new software, a new printer, probably better supplies and all the things that go with the improved image quality necessary to make the FF camera useful at the end product.
For some, sure. I'm good to go with the exception of a 24-70 lens which if they come out with I would probably get anyway regardless of FF. 24-70 on APS-C seems to be my ideal focal length. Actually 20-70 f/4 would be perfect.
12-30-2014, 06:09 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
For some, sure. I'm good to go with the exception of a 24-70 lens which if they come out with I would probably get anyway regardless of FF. 24-70 on APS-C seems to be my ideal focal length. Actually 20-70 f/4 would be perfect.
I would probably add the 70~210-ish lens (if it comes) and whatever 300 works. That would make 6 lenses, a recent, massive change in approach given my historical tendency toward lens hoarding.
12-30-2014, 06:16 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
That would make 6 lenses, a recent, massive change in approach given my historical tendency toward lens hoarding.
Agree, I went through a lot of LBA and have a very nice collection. Most of which I managed to get before the price increases. Not sure I would part with many of them but for daily use I could get by with a much simpler kit.
01-01-2015, 02:30 PM   #44
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I'd buy one but not the first year it came out... but with my connections I'd have my hands on one pronto
01-01-2015, 02:44 PM - 1 Like   #45
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Again, I will chime in here.

I definitely will be putting my - and my company's money on the line for it.

When the FF comes, I will be buying at least three - for myself.

Then, for the rest of my team(s), which should bring the count to something like 10 cameras.
I've just bought the first three kits for the team (K3 with three lenses).
I held off from buying more K3 kits because of what I think the FF will provide.

So, if the FF doesn't come soon, I am going to spend more money on K3 kits and Pentax will lose out.

So, I'm "all in" when it comes to the FF and the Pentax system - professionally and personally.

While I love the 645z, a Pentax FF makes more sense.

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