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12-22-2014, 04:34 PM   #16
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Yes, it is; and I'm not saying it never happens, just that I think it's highly unlikely in this case. I can't believe in such a deliberate, orchestrated way of lying to us - including lens prototypes, information spread behind the scene and public declarations/interviews.
Lying has limits, and so far there's no evidence that Ricoh Imaging lied to us. Innocent until proven guilty, OK?

12-22-2014, 05:15 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
such a deliberate, orchestrated way of lying to us
It is a prose version of a haiku. A few words to provoke the reader, to ignite his passion, but nothing that carries a committal. The reader ends up lying to himself and the writer has no penalty to pay.
12-22-2014, 06:23 PM   #18
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That is less positive than the last interview... but still nothing in this one contradicts anything said in the last one, which basically said the Full Frame had gone to the engineering department.

QuoteQuote:
The judgement on whether to make it into an actual product will be clarified next year.
SO the engineering must be pretty close to done, now they have to decide if they are going to put it into production. Things are moving right along. But I have to say... the K-3 has pretty much killed my desire for this product.

I need two different things, better HIgh ISO performance for getting the shutter speeds for birds in flight up to 1/4000 sec, like 6400 ISO without noise would be nice. and high resolution for landscapes. The first has to have state of the art focusing and low noise at high ISO with a great frame rate, the second has to be bare bones and high definition, with at least 15 EV dynamic range, 3 frames per second is more than adequate.

A simple examination of what is out there would suggest I'm not going to be happy on either count and won't see the FF as beneficial enough to warrant purchase, as it's unlikely that their offering will actually give me even one of the two, done to a standard as good as what is already out there from other manufacturers. I expect Pentax to come out with a nice safe middle of the road offering that does many things adequately but not much really well. Releasing just one FF body, what else could they consider?

Given the existence of the 645 D and Z for landscape, it's the low light action camera they are missing. And it's unlikely that will ever be on the table , coming from Pentax. I expect the FF to be very vanilla. And that will be marketing's problem. How much Vanilla can they sell? Especially since so many have already switched to other brands to get fast focusing, high ISO action cameras.

Last edited by normhead; 12-22-2014 at 06:38 PM.
12-22-2014, 07:04 PM - 1 Like   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
better HIgh ISO performance for getting the shutter speeds for birds in flight up to 1/4000 sec
Or find slower birds.

Taken with my trusty SMC A70-210 f4 manual focus lens. I was going to straighten the image, but then thought I was never going to fool anyone into thinking I had set up a tripod inside a blind anyway, so why bother.

I think about the forum member who spent three weeks photographing grizzlies in the BC wilderness, and my wife's young relative who won a very prestigious award for his outdoor photography, and the common theme is expensive equipment utilized with a great deal of intention and preparation. Not that the equipment was a prerequisite, but that there is no point in wasting all that effort, thought and time on inferiour equipment. From a marketing standpoint, you want to use those photographers as an endorsement for your brand, but you don't need to design products with them in mind. The great photographers will chose the tools they want, and extend them to showcase their talent; the rest of us just don't want to look like obvious fools when we buy expensive equipment based on expectations that no piece of plastic and metal can ever fulfill.

12-22-2014, 07:29 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
JPT, thanks for posting. It sounds to me they're almost ready to spill the beans... I'd like to know what you think of the following interpretation of your translation:
#1 - what we all know, they won't openly talk about yet unannounced products.
#2 - we will find out about their decision next year, in an unambiguous way. That's not the same as deciding next year. Even in the most optimistic scenario - CP+ product announcements - we'd still find out about it next year.
Given the prototype lenses displayed at Photokina, I think this "will be clarified" means product announcements; not just declarations and roadmaps. I would also link it to:
#3 - the hint that an announcement "might" be near. They wouldn't say so unless we're talking about advanced stages of development, which won't happen unless a decision was made quite some time ago - IMO.

Of course, it very much depends on the missing details; is it "clarified" as in "we don't know yet"? Or as in "we'll make it public"?
I think my interpretation ties nicely all they said; but even so, it's mostly guessing.
It's very difficult to translate this kind of thing because of the nature of the Japanese language. For adults, saying things too directly seems simplistic and childish, so there tends to be a lot of "might" and "maybe". If you translate this directly into English it can look very evasive, but to a Japanese reader, they will be better able to unravel the language and understand the real intent.

In other parts of the interview, they were using quite different language to talk about the prospect of a zoom GR camera, large-sensor mirrorless - don't hold your breath for these. They also talked about ways that lenses could be improved. They talked about the importance of video, especially outside Japan. They mentioned that the Q macro had faced some technical hurdles (related to AF) and (if I understood correctly) it has been put on hold because of their efforts with K-mount and 645 lenses. Overall, the message I got from the interview was that K-mount and 645 mount are the priorities and other projects are being pushed aside. Another interesting comment was that in one of the responses they referred to APS-C and down as "small" and full frame and above as "large". That's an interesting categorisation, since it exaggerates the difference between the two formats, whereas in the past they have given the message that their APS-C cameras can compete with their full frame competitors.

I do apologise if I get any of this wrong. I only have partial understanding of what I read. In the magazine it says that the interviews will be also available on the DC Watch website some time after December 22. Today (Dec 23) is a national holiday, but 24-26 are working days, so it might be available later this week. That will allow us to put it through Google translate.
12-22-2014, 09:21 PM   #21
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did they indicate mirrorless or dslr?
12-22-2014, 10:13 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
did they indicate mirrorless or dslr?
Well, it isn't stated explicitly but they said it will be K-mount specification and in a separate question they said any mirrorless plans are at a research stage. I think that strongly suggests a DSLR or SLT type camera.
12-22-2014, 11:37 PM   #23
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Our very own @Mistral75 sent that in, cheers for the good catch. Sounds like it's going to the production phase based on the second comment. Here's hoping he's right.

12-23-2014, 01:08 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
"The judgement on whether to make it into an actual product will be clarified next year."
I read this differently; especially the bolded part. This means to me: "The decision to start production will be taken next year." I don't see how this can be interpreted differently. There is a prototype, and they need to judge if it will be made into an actual product.
12-23-2014, 01:22 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
It's very difficult to translate this kind of thing because of the nature of the Japanese language. For adults, saying things too directly seems simplistic and childish, so there tends to be a lot of "might" and "maybe". If you translate this directly into English it can look very evasive, but to a Japanese reader, they will be better able to unravel the language and understand the real intent.
I can't claim to know Japanese; I just tried to learn a bit, for fun, few years ago. Even so, I think I can say that translation is indeed difficult; and I would never over-analyze an English translation - no matter how (technically) accurate. I would doubt any nuances, any assumption that constructions have their usual meaning. Yet I saw technical specifications being drawn out from a single word! That takes some talent

That's an interesting interview, I can't wait to read it. They were quite talkative, perhaps the questions came after the tea was served?
12-23-2014, 01:41 AM - 1 Like   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
I read this differently; especially the bolded part. This means to me: "The decision to start production will be taken next year." I don't see how this can be interpreted differently. There is a prototype, and they need to judge if it will be made into an actual product.
The other interpretation is "You will find out whether this becomes a final product sometime next year", in which case, the sentence that follows makes more sense. I think they are just dancing around what they mean because they can't announce it yet.

By the way, right next to this question on the page is a photo of those two massive lenses shown at Photokina. What camera do you think those are designed for if not a full frame camera?
12-23-2014, 01:57 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
The other interpretation is "You will find out whether this becomes a final product sometime next year", in which case, the sentence that follows makes more sense. I think they are just dancing around what they mean because they can't announce it yet.
You're right. Kunzite is right too though. We're trying to translate a translation to our own needs. I learned to not have my hopes up to high for Pentax, so I see something different in these runes.


QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
By the way, right next to this question on the page is a photo of those two massive lenses shown at Photokina. What camera do you think those are designed for if not a full frame camera?
Yeah well, who would have expected the 560mm 5.6 to be a DA (APS-C) lens? Size says equally as much as the words from this interview.
12-23-2014, 02:09 AM   #28
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Is it really an APS-C lens? Did anyone else claimed that, besides Pentaxforums' review? (which claim can't be taken seriously - similar lenses from the competition also show vignetting, and nobody would call them APS-C)
12-23-2014, 02:30 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Is it really an APS-C lens? Did anyone else claimed that, besides Pentaxforums' review? (which claim can't be taken seriously - similar lenses from the competition also show vignetting, and nobody would call them APS-C)
Here are some pics from the MZ-S:
DA 560mm F5.6 - is it a Full-frame lens? - Articles and Tips | PentaxForums.com

The lens can certainly be used on FF- you don't get black edges like with certain wide DA zooms. But I don't believe Pentax engineers had FF in mind when they designed the 560mm, as otherwise they would have fixed the vignetting. That's just my opinion.

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12-23-2014, 04:18 AM   #30
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There is every chance that very early in 2015, Nikon, Canon, Fuji, Samsung and maybe Sony are going to start cleaning clocks with revised ranges of APS-C cameras - Canon and Samsung already are - thus endangering the last redoubt Pentax has left outside the MF world - upmarket APS-C. Rather than showing a glass case with a couple of prosthetic limbs inside it (for all the use two unlabelled prototypes are), Ricoh's folks could instead indicate very clearly in interviews that they are on the job, on the ball and about to wow us all with a raft of top new APS-C products. They could, since it is the bread and butter business on which Ricoh depend for a huge proportion of their turnover. This futile wittering around FF Yes No Maybe has been going on for years now and seems no nearer to a resolution. It currently accounts for 0 per cent of Ricoh's turnover. Sigh. So many people must read this stuff and think "I've invested thousands with these fellows and now they're asking what day of the week it is - let's move on while we still can." That awful glass case - it looked lonely enough at Photokina - is part of the problem, not the solution. Do you see execs from Nikon or Fuji, say, carrying on like this?

Last edited by mecrox; 12-23-2014 at 05:17 AM.
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