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01-08-2015, 04:12 PM   #31
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There's a reason why ALL top professionals shoot with a FF in their chosen brand...

01-08-2015, 04:16 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Flugelbinder Quote
There's a reason why ALL top professionals shoot with a FF in their chosen brand...
Do you have *any* evidence at all to back up that blatantly incorrect blanket statement?
01-08-2015, 04:17 PM - 1 Like   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bcrary3 Quote
I had no idea about that with the APS-H chips, I just knew it was basically the size between a medium and a large, haha. But one thing that baffles me, is how are they not "taken seriously"? I mean, yeah, they do hold a much smaller market share than Canon and Nikon, but a few big differences are with Pentax you really get a truly outstanding piece of equipment for the price you pay (which is much lower than the others), so whilst not the "go to brand for all professionals" even if they did introduce a FF camera, they still wouldn't be. Why? Well, because they do not market their product, at least not like Canon and Nikon do (we have all seen the countless adverts for the Nikon D--- and the Canon Rebel XXX) moreover why do they need to be "taken seriously" I mean, with Canon and Nikon dSLRs you get a choice of what... Black? (You can have a Ford model 'T' in any colour as long as it is black) whereas Pentax at least has some fun with their bodies. I guess I just really understand what you mean by "taken seriously".
It's not the cameras, or the brand, that people around here want taken seriously, it's the k-mount. It was designed for 35mm film, so why not use it to its full potential?

QuoteOriginally posted by Bcrary3 Quote
I understand why it is justified, but I mean, if (for the most part) people are able to o what they need to do, and have not just good, but great results with the current existing hardware, is there a great demand to go above and beyond?
The model-t was good enough, why did anyone ever want a better car? Aps-c is great for many things (and the k-3 is a fantastic camera), but sticking with the car analogy for a moment, currently the k-3 has a very nice 1.6 turbo engine, but it would be really nice if they also offered it with a 3.2 twin turbo for those that want it.

QuoteQuote:
Another big concern is if that were the case, would their (presumably sub-par (by that I mean obviously not as good as they are doing now)) cameras remain the same price, or would they drop the price to make their FF cameras at least come some-what close to meeting current market price of their current cameras?
A bigger concern is that Canikonony FF cameras are squeezing the top end of the advanced amateur market. If it is squeezed much more, pentax will be forced to start cutting corners in their apsc bodies to keep them profitable. Currently the k3 volume sales fund the r&d on the 645z (since they share tech), so any squeeze there will have a knock on effect on the high end. Would you prefer to see the focussing system from the Q being shared with the 645z ii? Or maybe pentax should invest in an FF simply to share those components with the next 645?

It's for that reason I believe pentax have an FF in the works, but that's also why I don't expect to see it until 2018 at the earliest.

QuoteOriginally posted by Bcrary3 Quote
I mean, isn't one of the things with Pentax the fact that their "top of the line" dSLR isn't $7,000?
*cough* 645z *cough*
01-08-2015, 04:27 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Do you have *any* evidence at all to back up that blatantly incorrect blanket statement?
Why? Do you have any doubts about it? I wrote top professionals, not all professionals... Although I should have said FF and MF, so if this is what you have doubts about, you are correct...

---------- Post added 01-08-15 at 04:30 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by robthebloke Quote
*cough* 645z *cough*
I thought the same, but refrained myself from any comments...

01-08-2015, 04:32 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Another believer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will hate myself for ever mentioning APS-H on these forums.

QuoteOriginally posted by Flugelbinder Quote
There's a reason why ALL top professionals shoot with a FF in their chosen brand
I work professionally, I suppose you would think that I use Pentax APS-C dslrs to be ironic?

no, APS-C format holds advantages for macro and telephoto work.
01-08-2015, 04:34 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bcrary3 Quote
I know that, but I mean, how long has 35mm film been used for motion pictures? That I have no idea.
It's still in use (well it was a couple of years ago when I worked in film vfx). There are even motorcycles with custom refrigeration units, that carry film reels between the studios, developers, and vfx houses.
01-08-2015, 04:40 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by robthebloke Quote
I know that, but I mean, how long has 35mm film been used for motion pictures?
The thing is that many cine cameras don't actually use the full 35mm frame, For instance super 35 is closer to APS-C than full frame.
01-08-2015, 06:00 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Flugelbinder Quote
There's a reason why ALL top professionals shoot with a FF in their chosen brand...
All the biggest flaky wannabes want Full Frame's too. I think they believe it gives them a better chance to create a special image. The biggest users of Full Frame cameras in this day and age would be high income folks, who want to buy their way into photographic respectability. And there are far more of those than there are "top professionals" using full frame.

On Photo Extract, if you count the models used by people who get accepted to show their work on that sight, many of whom are professionals, the numbers of cameras used is almost the same as the market share of those cameras. There is no apparent "full frame" advantage that mean's people shooting full frame get in and people shooting APS-c don't. That's reality.

Claiming top professionals shoot full frame, or don't shoot APS-c, show us some credible numbers. Saying you wrote a few people. Most of the people I've met shooting Full Frame were wealthy amateurs. Not professionals.

If there's one statement people should be slapped upside the head for. NASA takes lots of images with Hubble, it doesn't mean it's suited to everyone.


Last edited by normhead; 01-08-2015 at 06:42 PM.
01-08-2015, 06:03 PM - 2 Likes   #39
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Why do people buy a BMW 5-Series that they aren't skilled enough to drive at its limit, when an Accord will accomplish the same thing 99% of the time they are sitting in it (and they only sit in it 45 minutes a day anyway)? Because they're upper-middle-class status seekers.

If you don't have to, why choose FF OR APSc?

Have both bodies and a great set of lenses - if you take telephoto, landscape AND macro photos. If you are wealthy enough and just want to have a FF, you will. If you sell your work and FF will improve your business you will get one. If you have old FF lenses and you want to use them as they were designed, you will get a FF (but you might be disappointed - even by the FA Lim's).

Almost all of the buyers of a FF Pentax will be just like almost all the people who always bought Pentax and Canon and Nikon top-line film cameras and lenses - upper-middle-class status seekers. They aren't likely to ask your question and wouldn't be able to answer it if they did.

Otherwise, if you are rational, you will find a good compromise, or shoot with what you have, when you have it, where you are.
01-08-2015, 06:04 PM - 1 Like   #40
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Joe Buissink, Jerry Ghionis, Ryan Brenizer... Want me to keep mentioning them? Sue Brice, Bambi Cantrell...
Are their numbers high enough for you?


---------- Post added 01-08-15 at 06:06 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
...shoot with what you have, when you have it, where you are...
Absolutely. I'm only saying that the people who make the big bucks, don't choose APS-C... And that's why I shoot with a used K-5 II, and not with a 645Z, a FF, or even a K-3. It's just how it is and I accept it...
The guy who's selling photographs for I-don't even-know-how-many-millions doesn't shoot APS-C either...


---------- Post added 01-08-15 at 06:09 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
...If there's one statement people should be slapped upside the head for...
Your choice of words are, more often than not, too aggressive...

Last edited by Flugelbinder; 01-08-2015 at 07:23 PM.
01-08-2015, 06:24 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Flugelbinder Quote
Joe Buissink, Jerry Ghionis, Ryan Brenizer... Want me to keep mentioning them? Sue Brice, Bambi Cantrell...
I guess you didn't see what I posted. No one said there were no top professional photographers shooting Full Frame, after all, it has definite advantages for some types of shooters.

Check out this list..
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/38-photographic-technique/203024-who-took...hotograph.html

There are some Full Frame shooters on there, but the top 2, Gursky shoots 5x7 film and scans it, and Peter Lik shoots MF and now owns a Pentax 645. Now without going through everyone you've named, the first two are wedding photogrpahers. My cousin used to have a very successful wedding photography business. He shot with Hasleblads, looked down his nose at 35mm like you wouldn't believe, but i have to say, in selecting only wedding photographers, you're really narrowed your range of "top professionals". While I have every bit of respect for wedding professionals, I would say, theirs is a very specialized business, and requires very specialized gear. It would be insane for most people to tailor their camera gear using wedding professionals as an example. Most people would be invoking un-necessary expense going that route.

That would be like me saying "top professionals" own 600mm ƒ4 lenses, so everyone should. After all, how are you going to take pictures of the little birds without that? Those little birds are as important to some as weddings are to others.

As a general rule, people shouldn't buy their gear based on what wedding professionals use,unless they plan to shoot weddings.

Ive found a host of wedding professionals that use APS_c on line, they seem to get work too.

Is that enough or should I keep slapping?

Last edited by normhead; 01-08-2015 at 06:31 PM.
01-08-2015, 06:31 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
...There are some Full Frame shooters on there, but the top 2, Gursky shots 5x7 film and scans it, and Peter Lik shoots MF and now owns a Pentax 645...

...Is that enough or should I keep slapping? ...
Yes, I did edit that post and mention MF. Btw, Sue Brice and Bambi Cantrell are portrait photographers... And, keep'em coming... Although I have to take a little break to put my baby girl to sleep, I'll be back (with an accent, like the other guy)...
01-08-2015, 06:34 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Flugelbinder Quote
Yes, I did edit that post and mention MF. Btw, Sue Brice and Bambi Cantrell are portrait photographers... And, keep'em coming...
Ha ha, maybe tomorrow,
You were supposed to say "no, no, that's enough, please stop, it's worse than Chineese water torture."

Check out this guy....

http://www.billgekas.com

And
http://www.photoextract.com/photographs/30218-bill-gekas

Notice his progression... K-5, K-5 II, 645D, no full frame...

Last edited by normhead; 01-08-2015 at 06:52 PM.
01-08-2015, 08:01 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Almost all of the buyers of a FF Pentax will be just like almost all the people who always bought Pentax and Canon and Nikon top-line film cameras and lenses - upper-middle-class status seekers.
So lower to middle middle-class blokes who do not give a rip about status hobby shooters like myself are rare then? Seems to be some around here from what I've seen... I just enjoy taking photos and the challenge of making the best photos I can whenever I do...



I took this shot at a Christmas party in relatively low light with my K5. (FA31, f1.8, ISO500, 1/25sec... ) I realized in hind sight I could have shot this one better with a bit higher ISO, etc, but the point is that I would have enjoyed a little extra help from the camera in this situation (as just one example) and if I can manage to swing it somehow, I am willing to shell out to get it... And I don't feel crazy/irrational but I concede that I may be hahaha. FF for me will be one of the more extravagant things I have ever purchased for myself, but I already shelled out bigger than I could have ever imagined when I started photography for the lenses I wanted the most, and I don't have many toys...
01-08-2015, 08:13 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by todd Quote
So lower to middle middle-class blokes who do not give a rip about status hobby shooters like myself are rare then? Seems to be some around here from what I've seen... I just enjoy taking photos and the challenge of making the best photos I can whenever I do...



I took this shot at a Christmas party in relatively low light with my K5. (FA31, f1.8, ISO500, 1/25sec... ) I realized in hind sight I could have shot this one better with a bit higher ISO, etc, but the point is that I would have enjoyed a little extra help from the camera in this situation (as just one example) and if I can manage to swing it somehow, I am willing to shell out to get it... And I don't feel crazy/irrational but I concede that I may be hahaha. FF for me will be one of the more extravagant things I have ever purchased for myself, but I already shelled out bigger than I could have ever imagined when I started photography for the lenses I wanted the most, and I don't have many toys...
Do you have the focus on the toddler's face or the shirt? Nice shot, just seem a little soft...
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