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01-25-2015, 05:27 AM - 2 Likes   #16
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How fast does your autofocus need to be to shoot buildings or landscapes from a tripod?

And How about Sensor shift composition/perspective adjustment:
Composition Adjustment/Sensor Shift...are you using it?

Sensor Shift in Action: Increasing Field of View

01-25-2015, 05:47 AM - 1 Like   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by ramseybuckeye Quote
they are not cheap either.
NO. not cheap, but cheaper than jumping to a new system.
01-25-2015, 06:15 AM - 1 Like   #18
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Not wide either, especially on APS-C. I have the Rokinon (Samyang) 24mm t/s and really like it, but it has too much barrel distortion to be a good choice for architecture. For K-mount digital I think the best solution would be stitching -- good stitching software gives you perspective control. But Canon looks like the best bet for un-stitched digital, short of a digital view camera (ten thousand here, ten thousand there, pretty soon you're talking real money). Of course there's always large format film.
01-25-2015, 07:20 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by baro-nite Quote
Not wide either, especially on APS-C. I have the Rokinon (Samyang) 24mm t/s and really like it, but it has too much barrel distortion to be a good choice for architecture. For K-mount digital I think the best solution would be stitching -- good stitching software gives you perspective control. But Canon looks like the best bet for un-stitched digital, short of a digital view camera (ten thousand here, ten thousand there, pretty soon you're talking real money). Of course there's always large format film.
You beat me to it. Get a cheap DA 35 mm and Microsoft's free stitching software ( and a K-5IIs or K-3) and bobs your uncle!

01-25-2015, 07:29 AM - 1 Like   #20
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A7 with adapter and Rokinon 24mm tilt shift.... will probably cost you about the same, maybe a bit more as the canon 24 canon tilt shift. And after you buy the Canon tilt shift, you still have to buy a camera. You do sound a little fixated on a Canon solution. The difference being with the adapter, the A7 will use all your Pentax glass. With the Canon, you're starting over.
01-25-2015, 08:38 AM - 1 Like   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by JayR Quote
Sadly, after learning photography 20 years ago with a manual focus K-mount Ricoh, a later replacement with the Pentax K30 and eventually going digital with the K7, its looking like I'll soon be buying into Canon, primarily for FF and their amazing shift lenses.

I do a little bit of commercial photography including architectural work on top of my day job as an architect, and have felt very limited by the lens line up in recent times, the Sigma 10-20 just wont cut it enough especially with taller building shots - only so much in the way of pixels you can lose with software perspective correction.

Ive liked using Pentax, particularly as the lenses are a bit smaller and a bit cheaper, but have found a few irritating things like the SDM death of the 16-50 (thankfully now fine with upgraded motor) the autofocus of the K7 being a bit average sometimes, limited modern lens range and/or rental options, and the less than ideal noise of the K7 sensor -
I'm probably going to end up selling my lenses as I dont see the point of running with two systems with incompatible mounts... Not looking forward to the cost of L lenses though!
Was looking into the Sony A7r with an adaptor so I could still use my Pentax lens AND get the Canon shift, but the adapter for Pentax isnt Autofocus (no good for the times when my left hand is holding a reflector in a model shoot!).

I'll miss the FA31 and 77, and the 50-135/2.8 particularly, even the 18-250 was a great holiday lens. Almost couldve considered using the Samyang 24mm TS if Pentax had a full frame, otherwise it or the old Pentax 28 Shift just arent wide enough!
So its looking like I'll be getting the Canon 6D, the 24 TSE, the 24-105 for a walk around and then the 17 TSE and some primes...
If only the Autofocus of the Sony A7 thing worked or there was an easy way of using pentax and canon lenses interchangeably.
Sorry to see you switch brands - not so much for brand loyalty but the forum loses a active member.

Let us know when you start selling your gear. We'll probably be more than happy to buy it.
01-25-2015, 09:51 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by JayR Quote
Well I was hoping for perhaps some insights or ideas I hadnt considered for being able to stick with Pentax in some way (ala the Sony A7 with multiple adaptors etc) rather than just adios!
If you can hang about for just a few more months there will be a FF and many new lenses to choose from.....seems silly to jump ship when all that is just around the corner.....it may be exactly what you need!
01-25-2015, 10:30 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by halfspin Quote
Get a cheap DA 35 mm and Microsoft's free stitching software ( and a K-5IIs or K-3) and bobs your uncle!
Well, to go this route for architectural work, especially interiors, one would really want a rig for multi-row, parallax-free panoramas, and that isn't something you can buy off the shelf for cheap.

01-25-2015, 10:35 AM - 1 Like   #24
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Pentax has a degree of TS built-in using the shift capability in the sensor. You'll need to search for the 'how-to' posts. but they're out there. When you find them, what they show is a surprising capability.
01-25-2015, 10:48 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by JayR Quote
Well I was hoping for perhaps some insights or ideas I hadnt considered for being able to stick with Pentax in some way (ala the Sony A7 with multiple adaptors etc) rather than just adios!
I have the Sony A7 with the adapter and the Canon 24mm tilt-shift.

Works great. Better than with the Canon, I think. Plus I can use all my current Pentax lenses too.

It's not about being a Pentaxian... If you were a Nikon person, and liked the Canon lenses, I'd still advise you to go with the Sony over the Canon. Without AF, the EVF is better than the OVF in my (controversial) opinion.

---------- Post added 01-25-15 at 09:51 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by DSims Quote
Furthermore, outside of the TS lenses, UWA is a Canon weakness, not a strength. Likewise with their macros.

There's a rumored 11-24 coming out, that I think will change that weakness into a strength. I certainly wouldn't advise anyone to jump ship on a rumor though.

And, hey, I heard Tokina makes some excellent macros for Canon mount....

---------- Post added 01-25-15 at 09:58 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by JohnX Quote
Pentax has a degree of TS built-in using the shift capability in the sensor. You'll need to search for the 'how-to' posts. but they're out there. When you find them, what they show is a surprising capability.
They don't have any tilt, they just have shift.

With a tilt shift Canon lens I can make medium-format stitches pretty easily... with everything in focus, or out of focus, as I desire.

Pentax going from 15x22 to 17x24, or whatever it is, is still pretty measly compared to 36x48mm, or 24x60mm (my choice).
01-25-2015, 12:17 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
Pentax has an old-ish tilt shift lens, and recently one has been manufactured by Samyang if I'm not mistaken (too early/sleepy/lazy to check now... ).
Just for clarity the Pentax 28mm is shift only, no tilt. Though for architecture I suppose only the shift is needed?? Not sure as that is something I do not do a lot of.

I have the Pentax 28mm shift and it is a remarkably sharp lens but @ 28mm on APS-C not wide enough. I've kept it as I would like to try it eventually on a FF of some sort. It would work on Sony of course and since it is all manual having no AF in the adapter does not matter.

I did have the opportunity to use (briefly) a friend's new Canon 24 TS and found it well made but a little difficult to use. I'm sure we would have figured it out eventually but time ran out and we had to move on.
01-25-2015, 12:26 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by JayR Quote
Actually had been considering the 6D which has a much better low light and noise capability than the 5d3,
This is a bit of hyperbole. Maybe half a stop in real world use in my experience and if your post chops and use of lighting are decent it's not an issue. The advantage of the 6D is simply price. And that may be enough if its AF if good enough for your shooting requirements. Both the AF capabilities and the degree of configuration of the 5DMK3 are truly "much better." The user interface and controls options and layout on the 5DMK3 is much improved and far more ergonomic than the 6D and in my experience worth the price difference.

I started using Canon gear about 6 years ago and completed the transition from Pentax early last year. Both systems have a lot of good and a few imperfections. I'm not much on looking backwards, but I have a half regret that I didn't make the move years earlier. I have the older 24mm TSE and using this with a "FF" camera in LiveView is a real treat, reminiscent of working with a 4x5. The newer 17mm TSE is very highly regarded, but I've never had a strong requirement to use one. My friends do a lot of commercial advertising shooting for wineries and use this lens to capture some majestic interiors in California.

M
01-25-2015, 03:25 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
---------- Post added 01-25-15 at 09:51 AM ----------

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There's a rumored 11-24 coming out, that I think will change that weakness into a strength. I certainly wouldn't advise anyone to jump ship on a rumor though.

And, hey, I heard Tokina makes some excellent macros for Canon mount.... [COLOR="Silver"]
True about Tokina making an excellent macro (and even a good WA or two) for Canon mount, but that's just my point, of course - it's not from Canon. And naturally this means no IS either, which matters to many of us.

Canon's been slowly fixing their problems, so I wouldn't put it past them to actually make the 11-24 pretty good. But we'll have to see. After all, they're still acting a bit complacent, as far as I can tell.

I understand a TS may be important in this case. But it was a little hard to believe someone serious about this wouldn't have looked beyond the Sigma 10-20 a while ago, let alone insisting on using it on nothing newer than the K-7!

---------- Post added 01-25-15 at 02:52 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by JayR Quote
Actually had been considering the 6D which has a much better low light and noise capability than the 5d3, otherwise yeah I wouldnt be so blase about jumping ship. Sadly, I havent had a chance to try the Sigma 8-16 on a K3 - no stores locally had both a K3 AND the 8-16 in K mount to even test them...

The software thing really just doesnt cut it for perspective control beyond anything minor, just too many pixels lost, squeezed or bloated out for images to be usable let alone acceptable for clients. Its pretty much the combo of wide angle full frame and quality shift lenses.

If money werent so much an issue I'd probably keep running the Pentax stuff for 'fun' (I prefer the size and feel) and use the canon for more commercial applications... Though in all likelyhood I think the sales of the Ltd and DA* lenses will go someway to buying new lenses on the new system.
Hope you enjoyed taking a little abuse from me in my first post!

I'd genuinely be interested in seeing what your clients expect, and what kind/size of output you're producing. Even an example posted and/or a RAW file would be of interest to me (PM me one if you like). But the lens will be a part of the problem anyway. The Sigma 8-16 and Tokina 11-16 are really the only high quality APS-C UWA zooms out there (hopefully the new Tokina 11-20 will be good too). Nevertheless, since you're looking at $2K TSE prime lenses, it's only fair to compare to primes. DA15 is close to 24mm on FF; samyang has 16/2 and 10/2.8 lenses, and Zeiss makes a nice 12mm for Fuji cameras.

Most importantly, however, I've never seen Capture One's keystone adjustment 'destroy pixels' like you appear to be describing, so even a K-7/Sigma 10-20 image should come out OK. A TS camera would still be ideal, but I'd sure like to see how challenging these shots are. Since money's an issue it's worth trying.

Last edited by DSims; 01-25-2015 at 03:59 PM.
01-25-2015, 05:25 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by JayR Quote
Actually had been considering the 6D which has a much better low light and noise capability than the 5d3, otherwise yeah I wouldnt be so blase about jumping ship. Sadly, I havent had a chance to try the Sigma 8-16 on a K3 - no stores locally had both a K3 AND the 8-16 in K mount to even test them...

The software thing really just doesnt cut it for perspective control beyond anything minor, just too many pixels lost, squeezed or bloated out for images to be usable let alone acceptable for clients. Its pretty much the combo of wide angle full frame and quality shift lenses.

If money werent so much an issue I'd probably keep running the Pentax stuff for 'fun' (I prefer the size and feel) and use the canon for more commercial applications... Though in all likelyhood I think the sales of the Ltd and DA* lenses will go someway to buying new lenses on the new system.
JayR,

I switched from Canon about a year ago. The last Canon I owned was the 6D. I now own a pair of K3s, the three amigos, a Sigma 10-20 among a few other lenses. The 6D is FF, yes and it is better at ISO 6400 compared to my K3. I still switched because of a combination of reasons. I cannot bad mouth Canon because it served me well for almost 14 years. High ISO was bad on anything before 6D but with 6D, that one issue went away.

TIlt/shift, SDM and lack of a few key fast focusing zooms are an issue with Pentax. However, for most of the stuff I do the K3 matches or surpasses anything Canon offers currently. Especially, when you factor in costs of body and lenses.

I photographed a brand new broadcast video truck for a client just last week. Mostly with the 10-20 at F9. Lots of interior, tight spot shooting. I ended up doing a painting technique with the strobes and combine as many as seven images to obtain the final result. We might use the shots for posters for their showroom. The images the way I have them will make nice 30x45" prints but beyond that the K3 may not hold up. If I switch from the K3, it would be for a 645z for better resolution and bigger prints, otherwise K3 does what I need.

I have considered the Sony mirrorless option. Especially with their upcoming 46MP body. If i do the switch, I can still use my FA lenses and a few older Takumars, Konicas and other lenses I have. I am sitting on the fence on this issue as I do not have the funds to go 645Z and I do not want to go back to Canon either.

If I were you, I would get a K3 to solve some immediate problems and wait to see what happens with Pentax this year. One feature that no Canon or Nikon can claim is the SR feature. Pentax offer it to us for free. With the other guys you pay for that feature and only in select lenses,. Certainly not in their fixed focal lenses.

Just my two cents.

---------- Post added 01-25-15 at 04:46 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by DSims Quote
True about Tokina making an excellent macro (and even a good WA or two) for Canon mount, but that's just my point, of course - it's not from Canon. And naturally this means no IS either, which matters to many of us.

Canon's been slowly fixing their problems, so I wouldn't put it past them to actually make the 11-24 pretty good. But we'll have to see. After all, they're still acting a bit complacent, as far as I can tell.

I understand a TS may be important in this case. But it was a little hard to believe someone serious about this wouldn't have looked beyond the Sigma 10-20 a while ago, let alone insisting on using it on nothing newer than the K-7!

---------- Post added 01-25-15 at 02:52 PM ----------


Hope you enjoyed taking a little abuse from me in my first post!

I'd genuinely be interested in seeing what your clients expect, and what kind/size of output you're producing. Even an example posted and/or a RAW file would be of interest to me (PM me one if you like). But the lens will be a part of the problem anyway. The Sigma 8-16 and Tokina 11-16 are really the only high quality APS-C UWA zooms out there (hopefully the new Tokina 11-20 will be good too). Nevertheless, since you're looking at $2K TSE prime lenses, it's only fair to compare to primes. DA15 is close to 24mm on FF; samyang has 16/2 and 10/2.8 lenses, and Zeiss makes a nice 12mm for Fuji cameras.

Most importantly, however, I've never seen Capture One's keystone adjustment 'destroy pixels' like you appear to be describing, so even a K-7/Sigma 10-20 image should come out OK. A TS camera would still be ideal, but I'd sure like to see how challenging these shots are. Since money's an issue it's worth trying.
DSims,

I like all your points. For me, if the client base is a high paying one, then I would get whatever delivers the ultimate image. If we have to shoestring it, like I do, then we get into alternative solutions.

If I shot architectural type subjects, I would minimally get a 645Z. If the clients pay big dollar then I would look at a system that offers higher resolution and tilt shift option. Even if it means a solution well north of $50k.

For me and most of us regular folk, the challenge of finding high end solutions without high end money is part of the fun.

If I were to go beyond K3, my current camera, it would be for bigger pixel count as current Pentax DSLR lenses are fantastic and the system is as good as anyone else. Yes there are holes in the lens system but there are always ways to deal with any system's limitations. No one system offers perfect solution for every photographic challenge.

Last edited by btnapa; 01-25-2015 at 05:29 PM. Reason: Text
01-25-2015, 05:53 PM   #30
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