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01-26-2015, 10:13 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrNewt Quote
Also, tilt and shift nowadays can be done in PP ... no need for the actual lenses.
Shift, yes. (Of course one could also shift in the darkroom, so in that sense there has never been a "need" for a shift lens.) Tilt, no, other than selectively defocusing things, which is hardly what you'd want for most architectural work.

01-26-2015, 10:37 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by baro-nite Quote
Shift, yes. (Of course one could also shift in the darkroom, so in that sense there has never been a "need" for a shift lens.) Tilt, no, other than selectively defocusing things, which is hardly what you'd want for most architectural work.
If you know what you are doing you can have some very good results... that is what tilt is used for... selective focusing.
In PP you go the other way around and you do selective defocus, getting the same results.

A quick search and a small tutorial with decent results.

Or even better...

A more in-depth tutorial on how to use the tilt-shift feature in Photoshop

Last edited by mrNewt; 01-26-2015 at 11:03 AM.
01-26-2015, 11:48 AM   #48
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hmmmm, not sure there Mr. Newt... selective focus is to change the angle of the focal plane. Standing on the ground you can not keep a building top to bottom all in focus often , because the top of the building is further away from the camera and in a different focal plane. Tilt shift enables you to keep the sensor plane parallel to the subject... you actually can't do that with software. For the more superficial uses of tilt shift, creating art with DoF, maybe. For, the keeping your subject in focus and your lines straight part of tilt shift,the more technical uses, PP is useless.

I think you may have had your notion of what tilt shift does altered by software developers..
01-26-2015, 11:56 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
For, the keeping your subject in focus and your lines straight part of tilt shift, PP is useless.
That's not entirely true...

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Standing on the ground you can not keep a building top to bottom all in focus often , because the top of the building is further away from the camera and in a different focal plane.
This was true in the film era, however, in today's world, with good knowledge of image manipulation, these can be overcome very easily.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I think you may have had your notion of what tilt shift does, altered by software developers..
I doubt my notion was altered in any way... I'm well aware of what tilt shift lens do.
All that I am saying is that with careful planning when taking the picture and the right knowledge, you do not need a tilt shift lens to create the effect you are after. As a matter of fact, you have more control in PP over the image than the actual lens will give you.

01-26-2015, 12:02 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by eyeswideshut Quote
the problem with shooting interiors is that you need wide glass... would 28mm or 35mm on even a ff sensor be enough... canon has the 17mm/24mm glass for this, no one else comes close, so the body has to be canon or mirrorless? you can stretch a pic in photoshop, but that hurts the resolution big time.

the resident genius at sar posted today that "Trusted source: I am 99% sure the new A7rII is coming with “50Mp sensor”."... it already has 500 comments on it.

i wouldn't be investing in a canon 6d at this point in time, and it's not clear on exactly what pentax is bringing to the table.
01-26-2015, 12:29 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrNewt Quote
That's not entirely true...


This was true in the film era, however, in today's world, with good knowledge of image manipulation, these can be overcome very easily.


I doubt my notion was altered in any way... I'm well aware of what tilt shift lens do.
All that I am saying is that with careful planning when taking the picture and the right knowledge, you do not need a tilt shift lens to create the effect you are after. As a matter of fact, you have more control in PP over the image than the actual lens will give you.
OK now I have to see some examples, surely with a claim like that, you have an image taken with a tilt-shift and an image taken with without and post processed to keep a building like the empire state-building or a church steeple, that gets narrower on the way up, parallel with the focal plane.

You have to expect that no one in their right mind would accept such a statement without a visual.
01-26-2015, 12:37 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrNewt Quote
If you know what you are doing you can have some very good results... that is what tilt is used for... selective focusing.
All of the links you posted are for creating the so-called tilt-shift effect, which is to say mimicking the effect of lens tilt to blur large areas of the image. What you can't do (at least not very well) in PP is to effectively sharpen areas that are not in good focus, as you can do with a tilt lens when shooting, say, a classic near-far wide angle composition. All of this discussion is rather beside the point, as lens tilt is of limited use in architectural work anyway. It's rare to have a subject whose shape is suited to this.
01-26-2015, 12:42 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by baro-nite Quote
All of the links you posted are for creating the so-called tilt-shift effect, which is to say mimicking the effect of lens tilt to blur large areas of the image. What you can't do (at least not very well) in PP is to effectively sharpen areas that are not in good focus, as you can do with a tilt lens when shooting, say, a classic near-far wide angle composition. All of this discussion is rather beside the point, as lens tilt is of limited use in architectural work anyway. It's rare to have a subject whose shape is suited to this.
Well, maybe he's talking about stacking

01-26-2015, 12:48 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
OK now I have to see some examples, surely with a claim like that, you have an image taken with a tilt-shift and an image taken with without and post processed to keep a building like the empire state-building or a church steeple, that gets narrower on the way up, parallel with the focal plane.

You have to expect that no one in their right mind would accept such a statement without a visual.
It all goes down to the "careful preparation when taking the picture" and imagine manipulation knowledge that I was talking about earlier.

I do not have side by side example (tilt and shift vs just image manipulation) since I never bothered to do that... but it is possible .
To give you a taste in how is (sort of a) done, feel free to search for "fixing perspective with Photoshop". You will get a few "crude" simple examples on you fix your perspectives (better results will be depended on how you plan the picture when you take it and your knowledge of the software), but things can go much "deeper".

However, if you are willing to lend me a tilt and shift lens (or a kipton adapter from m42 to nex) - don't have one any longer - I can do the photo shoot and give you a final result comparing the both techniques. I'll use as demonstration the Rogers tower... hope is tall enough for you .


QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
Well, maybe he's talking about stacking
That's another thing that you can use while you prepare your photos, yes. Depends on the building, location and angle.

Last edited by mrNewt; 01-26-2015 at 01:27 PM.
01-26-2015, 07:51 PM   #55
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Yeah I saw the thing about pentax sensor shifting, but I gather the effect is pretty small compared with a dedicated shift lens?
OK to explain my situation a bit better:

Example 1 - problem with a narrow street + tall building + UWA = converging verticals; not ok for client


So take several images with same exposure, to later be stitched together;



and



And then manipulate the converging parallel lines with software to get something like this;


Problem is, once you start needing to manipulate it so heavily with software, the pixels being so heavily 'stretched' at the top end up meaning that its a combination of soft with multiplied artifacts.
I'm not expecting to be able to get it all in one shot with the 17mm TSE either, but doing a lot more optically should help.

Unless I'm really over looking something??
And again, was I right understanding that there no Autofocus adapter for Pentax lenses on the Sony A7???
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01-26-2015, 09:21 PM   #56
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Do what you have to do but with a K7 you are several generations behind. The newer Pentax K5 IIs and K3 are very good against noise. Sony is actually very poor at this because they don't use a mirror. Nikon's FF new 75O is very good against noise.
I shoot real estate photography for a living. I have a k5 IIs and use a Pentax 12-24mm lens. It is wide enough and does a great job controlling distortion. I had a Tamron 10-24 and it was wider but has much more distortion. Pentax is really good for architectural and real estate photography. Their AWB is excellent and probably better than comparable canons. Pentax works great here because you don't need lightning fast focus in your cameral. Pentax has very wide angle lens that are excellent. The weakest part of the line up may be that they have slower zoom lenses then the competition. Buy what you want for the right reason but don't buy FF because of the sensor size. Buy what you want for your need as a photographer. Pentax camera prices are dropping so what does that tell you? There is always a newer one coming. FF does not mean the grass is greener, just a little wider.
01-26-2015, 09:45 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Racerdew Quote
The newer Pentax K5 IIs and K3 are very good against noise. Sony is actually very poor at this because they don't use a mirror.
Ok, what does the mirror have to do with noise?
01-26-2015, 09:51 PM   #58
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Boy, that's a pretty darned extreme example and probably leaves Canon's 17mm as your only one stop option. However, even if you can avoid (or correct in post) the converging lines, the image will still have something artificial and exaggerated about it (check the balconies). If at all possible, it is better to seek a vantage point further away, perhaps from another of the tall buildings in the neighbourhood?
01-26-2015, 09:58 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by JayR Quote
. . .
And again, was I right understanding that there no Autofocus adapter for Pentax lenses on the Sony A7???
Tilt Shift lenses are manual focus.

TS-E 17mm f/4L



http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/professional/products/lenses/ef_lens_lineup/le...Specifications
01-26-2015, 10:07 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by Racerdew Quote
Their AWB is excellent and probably better than comparable canons.
So how do you know this? Please share with me your experience using both camera systems?
Thanks

M
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