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02-08-2015, 12:45 AM - 1 Like   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by CypherOz Quote
The point being that the light from on-board is pretty crappy; if you are shooting with a 35mm sensor then you should have your lighting sorted.
Eg. the Nikon D4s does not have an inbuilt flash

Sigh.

---------- Post added 08-02-15 at 07:46 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by cxdoo Quote
I think we have a failure to communicate here. Anecdotes about built-in flash being useful because that was all you had miss the point; the point being - you don't carry a FF DSLR casually, it's just too big & heavy for that. And if you're packing it, you're supposed to pack your light too, because it makes no difference in weight but a huge one in quality of light.
There's no outcry against built-in flash in principle, just against it in a high end (& hefty) body.
Sigh.

---------- Post added 08-02-15 at 07:48 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I just don't think it will be that important to most of the folks who are interested in this camera,
Sigh. it's amusing the amount of people who seem to claim authority on other photographer's needs.

02-08-2015, 02:16 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by Smeggypants Quote
Sigh.

Sigh.

Sigh. it's amusing the amount of people who seem to claim authority on other photographer's needs.
See how effective is your dedicated sighing post? Yes, you could say I didn't have the luxury to write a separate post but a weak-ass sigh popping in your otherwise non-sighing post would be kind of meh compared to this.
02-08-2015, 10:09 AM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by Smeggypants Quote
Sigh.



Sigh. it's amusing the amount of people who seem to claim authority on other photographer's needs.
The people willing to compromise image integrity to save carrying a couple of hundred grams of flash are not the people likely to spend mega bucks on a FF camera ...... And so Ricoh are unlikely to cater for their wants
02-08-2015, 10:23 AM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimC1101 Quote
Hmmm.....so you always bring your speed light with you when you need fill flash, which could be outdoors or in low light indoor situations?
Almost always. If I don't have a flash I'll at least have a pop-up reflector stuffed down my pants.

I've never used the pop-up on my dslr's except to check that they function. I like the idea of using a pop-up as a commander, but I've never managed to purchase a p-ttl flash to use as a remote. Maybe they'll put out a small unit like the AF200FG that can also double as a commander for those who want wireless p-ttl without having the larger p-ttl flashes on the camera.

02-08-2015, 10:56 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
Maybe they'll put out a small unit like the AF200FG
Didn't Pentax just announce a new flash - the AF201FG flash - alongside the K-S2?
The plot thickens ...
02-08-2015, 11:06 AM - 2 Likes   #96
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Well it has become clear that people have differing preferences on this issue. Let's respect them. Both are legitimate. No absolute right or wrong here.
02-08-2015, 12:07 PM   #97
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Back in the days of my Canon 5D the lack of OB wasn't missed. Now, I'm not so sure. Manual flash on the K-3 has come in handy, especially for times when I want to trigger an external flash.

For my purposes, the pTTL lag makes it impossible to use for most situations I encounter.

Now that I have the Joe Demb modifier - I can diffuse light with the OB more artfully and softer than using a Fong on a large flash. Also, I can afford to shoot 800 ISO and bounce light off the ceiling (assuming that I'm using a relatively fast lens). Even without the bounce/modifier, if the FF body provides HSS for bright fill situations (ala *istD) - that's a worthwhile consideration for close range work when considering the shutter sync limitation.

Sometimes you encounter an unexpected situation when traveling light. For instance, I didn't anticipate a request for a situation like this one - where creating a lighting balance was absolutely necessary. Using the manual flash ratio worked well:
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02-08-2015, 03:15 PM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
But the D610/D750/D810 do ...

The lack of a built-in flash would not be a deal-breaker for me, but a built-in flash seems one of those added extra value features that are characteristic of Pentax, so I would be surprised to see it omitted.
I really hope most K-3 or K-5/s shooter don't ever use the on board flash.
To me if it can be left off and keeps the price down a bit it is more than worth not having it.

We should really welcome the lack of on board flash as a bonus!

02-11-2015, 05:22 PM   #99
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Regardless of the arguments for and against OBF, if Ricoh offers the new 35FF body without one, it will be because they judge the benefit of usefulness to be less than the cost of additional size, weight and price. Potential buyers will make the same judgment on their own behalf, but I have to wonder how many will regard that as a deal-breaker.

Having spent many years of film shooting without its benefits, and having rarely called on the OBF on any of my digital cameras, for myself, I don't much care if there isn't one. In the end, it'll either be there, or it won't.
02-11-2015, 06:18 PM   #100
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I like the convenience of an on board flash, but the lack (or presence) of one would have zero influence on my decision to buy, or not buy, the camera.
02-11-2015, 06:29 PM   #101
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I don't care if it has built-in flash or not. It isn't important to me. If I'm likely to be shooting people I bring the 540's along.

I don't think I've ever used the built-in on my K-3, and I've actually wondered several times why they bother with it on a semi-professional camera body.

Having read through this thread I very much doubt I'm going to change the minds of those who advocate a built-in flash, but thought I'd throw my ten-cents worth in anyway
02-11-2015, 06:42 PM   #102
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Yeah, to me it is just about a convenience thing. I would never use the ob as my primary flash and if I have it already thought out that I will need a flash, I will take it with me but in some instances when I shoot people in casual environments, It makes them less relaxed and more intimidated by an external. I don't know why, I guess because they seem it to be a more professional photo and they seem to pose more so than just be natural. Onboard is what a lot of people are use to seeing so they seem more relaxed. Just my observation.


Without ob....I could get by without it. I really only use it for fill anyways a majority of when I use ob so if I did not have it, I always shoot raw so I can always increase shadows in LR and all is good.
02-12-2015, 02:15 PM   #103
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Now it just means that the decision to take an external flash is made for the FF photographer.
Don't leave home without it.
02-13-2015, 01:30 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Now it just means that the decision to take an external flash is made for the FF photographer. Don't leave home without it.
If what you want is a small portable flash, RP's got you covered.
02-13-2015, 01:56 AM   #105
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Absolutely no room for onboard flash if you look at the patent drawings. That big prism takes up all the top end room in the FF.
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