No onboard flash ? :(

Gray · 02-07-2015, 10:12 AM

I use onboard flash all the time to trigger the main flash unit in my other hand. Camera in one hand, flash in the other - very flexible, allows me to orient the flash according to the room as I move about - get some great shots.

j2photos · 02-07-2015, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by drawbar

Before that I documented a wasp nest in a dark shed when planning my later commando attack.

Cameras have many uses, mind you.

SimonomiS · 02-07-2015, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by drawbar

Besides normal pictures in dark, or fill flash in natural light, onboard flash is handy when documenting stuff, and goal is not "artistic" picture. A while ago I used built-in flash as memory help when disassembling/renovating my computer. Before that I documented a wasp nest in a dark shed when planning my later commando attack.

Cameras have many uses, mind you.

For those things you should probably be using a handy smartphone rather than a comparatively huge, bulky, full frame, professional DSLR.

cxdoo · 02-07-2015, 10:33 AM

I think we have a failure to communicate here. Anecdotes about built-in flash being useful because that was all you had miss the point; the point being - you don't carry a FF DSLR casually, it's just too big & heavy for that. And if you're packing it, you're supposed to pack your light too, because it makes no difference in weight but a huge one in quality of light.
There's no outcry against built-in flash in principle, just against it in a high end (& hefty) body.

drawbar · 02-07-2015, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by SimonomiS

For those things you should probably be using a handy smartphone rather than a comparatively huge, bulky, full frame, professional DSLR.

Unfortunately my phone camera as yet does not take Pentax 55-300 that was used in the wasp situation..

---------- Post added 7th Feb 2015 at 19:50 ----------

Originally posted by cxdoo

I think we have a failure to communicate here. Anecdotes about built-in flash being useful because that was all you had miss the point; the point being - you don't carry a FF DSLR casually, it's just too big & heavy for that. And if you're packing it, you're supposed to pack your light too, because it makes no difference in weight but a huge one in quality of light.
There's no outcry against built-in flash in principle, just against it in a high end (& hefty) body.

Another thing to note, it would be quite important for me, when contemplating acquiring the FF, that it is NOT heavy. Fortunately, judging by the first model, it should apparently be not much heavier than K3, which is still quite portable I think.(For now I'm using the still lighter k30.) But this is a subject perhaps better to be discussed more elsewhere.

SimonomiS · 02-07-2015, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by drawbar

Unfortunately my phone camera as yet does not take Pentax 55-300 that was used in the wasp situation..

[COLOR="Silver"]

Well in that case, the Pentax X5 goes up to 580mm.

Sagitta · 02-07-2015, 01:10 PM

The answer here is simple.

Offer a kit with a flash unit included and just put a hotshoe on the camera. BOOM. Best of both worlds.

drawbar · 02-07-2015, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by SimonomiS

Well in that case, the Pentax X5 goes up to 580mm.

Are you suggesting I should have an extra camera for just an odd flash picture?

Originally posted by Sagitta

The answer here is simple.
Offer a kit with a flash unit included and just put a hotshoe on the camera. BOOM. Best of both worlds.

And you suggest that people should buy a kit with external flash for an odd flash shot. Because the camera hasn't one.

I am just saying that IF I someday should buy FF by Pentax, I hope that it has all the bells and whistles that I need in the same -but preferably compact and light - package. Same thing if my computer/monitor hasn't got a card reader, I can buy an external one, but better still if they include it. Less hassle.

Sagitta · 02-07-2015, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by drawbar

And you suggest that people should buy a kit with external flash for an odd flash shot. Because the camera hasn't one.

Exactly. Don't want a flash? Don't buy the kit with the flash unit. Don't want a kit lens? Don't get the kit with a lens included. Want both? Well for X dollars more, here is a kit with a flash AND a lens.

Its not like they're going to release this camera and only have one combination of gear that can come with it.

Pentax has been doing this since always with their cameras.

Hell, if they wanted to get really crazy they could offer the FF in a few color schemes and make a flash that matches the body.

mikeuk · 02-07-2015, 02:50 PM

Give space to a big pentaprism in a compact body. No build in flash!? Not a big deal for most pro shooters.

**Rondec** · 02-07-2015, 03:23 PM

I just don't think it will be that important to most of the folks who are interested in this camera, any more than they will be upset at the lack of scene modes. I doubt it is finalized either as to whether or not it will have a pop up flash.

My experience is that it isn't great light and if I was in a pinch and had the choice between using it and going to iso 12,800, I would choose the latter.

Sagitta · 02-07-2015, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

I just don't think it will be that important to most of the folks who are interested in this camera, any more than they will be upset at the lack of scene modes. I doubt it is finalized either as to whether or not it will have a pop up flash.

My experience is that it isn't great light and if I was in a pinch and had the choice between using it and going to iso 12,800, I would choose the latter.

See, if they wanted something revolutionary (or at least different, as far as I can tell) they would make an onboard flash that can be swiveled/rotated so you can have something to bounce off the ceiling. That way, even if its lowslung it wouldn't matter since its use would be elsewhere.

JimC1101 · 02-07-2015, 03:58 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Rondec

I just don't think it will be that important to most of the folks who are interested in this camera, any more than they will be upset at the lack of scene modes. I doubt it is finalized either as to whether or not it will have a pop up flash.

My experience is that it isn't great light and if I was in a pinch and had the choice between using it and going to iso 12,800, I would choose the latter.

Agree.

I started the thread just to see what the opinions are. I did not think it would be so many replies.
If it had a built in flash but only topped out at ISO 1600, then I would be truly disappointed but without a flash, I would be just shaking my head and wondering why they don't just add all of the simple convenient things even if they only occasionally use it, or don't think it as relevant.

For others who say, a pro body should not have a flash, well, I would hope that Pentax will not keep this camera to be geared solely for the pro shooters, I hope they show the conveniences for all of our shooters. There are many time that we will shoot studio settings and an on board would not be used in those instances, especially me. I love my Metz and would never think as the on board as being comparable in terms of flash output. But on those days where I want to be out and about, using the on board effectively does the job in a pinch.

On board is all about portability and that 1 in a million chance that I need a flash (well, maybe not a million) and did not bring my Metz, I would rather use the on board, than not able to miss the shot at all.

drawbar · 02-07-2015, 04:20 PM - **1 Like**

You don't have to be pro or semi-pro or even "serious photographer" to find FF camera useful. Many of us have for long had 35mm film cameras plus "FF" glass to go with it. Nothing new, good old views.

Maybe some people are afraid that if their top FF camera would have inbuilt flash, it would ruin the "pro" image of their gear?

Tesla · 02-07-2015, 05:26 PM

I'm not a pro.. I want FF and built in flash. Like I said before... right now there is only one FF camera.. so load it up with as many features as possible to make everyone happy... then when and if they expand the FF line to multiple bodies they can make a die hard pro version with no video, no popup flash, no tilted screen, etc.

02-07-2015, 10:13 AM	#77
j2photos Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Manteca, CA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,653	Originally posted by drawbar Before that I documented a wasp nest in a dark shed when planning my later commando attack. Cameras have many uses, mind you. Last edited by j2photos; 02-07-2015 at 10:46 AM.

02-07-2015, 12:57 PM	#81
SimonomiS New Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 12	Originally posted by drawbar Unfortunately my phone camera as yet does not take Pentax 55-300 that was used in the wasp situation..[COLOR="Silver"] Well in that case, the Pentax X5 goes up to 580mm.

02-07-2015, 01:58 PM	#84
Sagitta Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,081	Originally posted by drawbar And you suggest that people should buy a kit with external flash for an odd flash shot. Because the camera hasn't one. Exactly. Don't want a flash? Don't buy the kit with the flash unit. Don't want a kit lens? Don't get the kit with a lens included. Want both? Well for X dollars more, here is a kit with a flash AND a lens. Its not like they're going to release this camera and only have one combination of gear that can come with it. Pentax has been doing this since always with their cameras. Hell, if they wanted to get really crazy they could offer the FF in a few color schemes and make a flash that matches the body. Last edited by Sagitta; 02-07-2015 at 03:24 PM.

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02-07-2015, 10:12 AM	#76
Gray Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Cape Town Photos: Gallery Posts: 536	I use onboard flash all the time to trigger the main flash unit in my other hand. Camera in one hand, flash in the other - very flexible, allows me to orient the flash according to the room as I move about - get some great shots.

02-07-2015, 10:20 AM	#78
SimonomiS New Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 12	Originally posted by drawbar Besides normal pictures in dark, or fill flash in natural light, onboard flash is handy when documenting stuff, and goal is not "artistic" picture. A while ago I used built-in flash as memory help when disassembling/renovating my computer. Before that I documented a wasp nest in a dark shed when planning my later commando attack. Cameras have many uses, mind you. For those things you should probably be using a handy smartphone rather than a comparatively huge, bulky, full frame, professional DSLR.

02-07-2015, 10:33 AM	#79
cxdoo Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Limassol, Cyprus Posts: 1,150	I think we have a failure to communicate here. Anecdotes about built-in flash being useful because that was all you had miss the point; the point being - you don't carry a FF DSLR casually, it's just too big & heavy for that. And if you're packing it, you're supposed to pack your light too, because it makes no difference in weight but a huge one in quality of light. There's no outcry against built-in flash in principle, just against it in a high end (& hefty) body.

02-07-2015, 10:37 AM	#80
drawbar Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Hämeenlinna, Finland Posts: 52	Originally posted by SimonomiS For those things you should probably be using a handy smartphone rather than a comparatively huge, bulky, full frame, professional DSLR. Unfortunately my phone camera as yet does not take Pentax 55-300 that was used in the wasp situation.. ---------- Post added 7th Feb 2015 at 19:50 ---------- Originally posted by cxdoo I think we have a failure to communicate here. Anecdotes about built-in flash being useful because that was all you had miss the point; the point being - you don't carry a FF DSLR casually, it's just too big & heavy for that. And if you're packing it, you're supposed to pack your light too, because it makes no difference in weight but a huge one in quality of light. There's no outcry against built-in flash in principle, just against it in a high end (& hefty) body. Another thing to note, it would be quite important for me, when contemplating acquiring the FF, that it is NOT heavy. Fortunately, judging by the first model, it should apparently be not much heavier than K3, which is still quite portable I think.(For now I'm using the still lighter k30.) But this is a subject perhaps better to be discussed more elsewhere.

02-07-2015, 01:10 PM	#82
Sagitta Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,081	The answer here is simple. Offer a kit with a flash unit included and just put a hotshoe on the camera. BOOM. Best of both worlds.

02-07-2015, 01:45 PM	#83
drawbar Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Hämeenlinna, Finland Posts: 52	Originally posted by SimonomiS Well in that case, the Pentax X5 goes up to 580mm. Are you suggesting I should have an extra camera for just an odd flash picture? Originally posted by Sagitta The answer here is simple. Offer a kit with a flash unit included and just put a hotshoe on the camera. BOOM. Best of both worlds. And you suggest that people should buy a kit with external flash for an odd flash shot. Because the camera hasn't one. I am just saying that IF I someday should buy FF by Pentax, I hope that it has all the bells and whistles that I need in the same -but preferably compact and light - package. Same thing if my computer/monitor hasn't got a card reader, I can buy an external one, but better still if they include it. Less hassle.

02-07-2015, 02:50 PM	#85
mikeuk New Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 2	Give space to a big pentaprism in a compact body. No build in flash!? Not a big deal for most pro shooters.

02-07-2015, 03:23 PM	#86
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,652	I just don't think it will be that important to most of the folks who are interested in this camera, any more than they will be upset at the lack of scene modes. I doubt it is finalized either as to whether or not it will have a pop up flash. My experience is that it isn't great light and if I was in a pinch and had the choice between using it and going to iso 12,800, I would choose the latter.

02-07-2015, 03:26 PM	#87
Sagitta Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,081	Originally posted by Rondec I just don't think it will be that important to most of the folks who are interested in this camera, any more than they will be upset at the lack of scene modes. I doubt it is finalized either as to whether or not it will have a pop up flash. My experience is that it isn't great light and if I was in a pinch and had the choice between using it and going to iso 12,800, I would choose the latter. See, if they wanted something revolutionary (or at least different, as far as I can tell) they would make an onboard flash that can be swiveled/rotated so you can have something to bounce off the ceiling. That way, even if its lowslung it wouldn't matter since its use would be elsewhere.

02-07-2015, 03:58 PM - 1 Like	#88
JimC1101 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Fremont, Ca Photos: Albums Posts: 395 Original Poster	Originally posted by Rondec I just don't think it will be that important to most of the folks who are interested in this camera, any more than they will be upset at the lack of scene modes. I doubt it is finalized either as to whether or not it will have a pop up flash. My experience is that it isn't great light and if I was in a pinch and had the choice between using it and going to iso 12,800, I would choose the latter. Agree. I started the thread just to see what the opinions are. I did not think it would be so many replies. If it had a built in flash but only topped out at ISO 1600, then I would be truly disappointed but without a flash, I would be just shaking my head and wondering why they don't just add all of the simple convenient things even if they only occasionally use it, or don't think it as relevant. For others who say, a pro body should not have a flash, well, I would hope that Pentax will not keep this camera to be geared solely for the pro shooters, I hope they show the conveniences for all of our shooters. There are many time that we will shoot studio settings and an on board would not be used in those instances, especially me. I love my Metz and would never think as the on board as being comparable in terms of flash output. But on those days where I want to be out and about, using the on board effectively does the job in a pinch. On board is all about portability and that 1 in a million chance that I need a flash (well, maybe not a million) and did not bring my Metz, I would rather use the on board, than not able to miss the shot at all.

02-07-2015, 04:20 PM - 1 Like	#89
drawbar Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Hämeenlinna, Finland Posts: 52	You don't have to be pro or semi-pro or even "serious photographer" to find FF camera useful. Many of us have for long had 35mm film cameras plus "FF" glass to go with it. Nothing new, good old views. Maybe some people are afraid that if their top FF camera would have inbuilt flash, it would ruin the "pro" image of their gear?

02-07-2015, 05:26 PM	#90
Tesla Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Washington State Posts: 589	I'm not a pro.. I want FF and built in flash. Like I said before... right now there is only one FF camera.. so load it up with as many features as possible to make everyone happy... then when and if they expand the FF line to multiple bodies they can make a die hard pro version with no video, no popup flash, no tilted screen, etc.