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02-10-2015, 04:20 PM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by formercanuck Quote
Just because the new FF camera has KAF3 doesn't mean that it doesn't have KAF2, KA, etc.

My K-30 has KAF3 and still has the screw drive.
I did mention this a while back when Pentax brought out new DC lenses (16-85mm DC WR), and more recently 18-50mm DC, that Pentax will join the motor-in-lens club.

I personally don't have any issues with screw drive lenses (very tough, last forever, and you'll replace the body before the lens).
I do suspect that existing LTD and very small cameras will keep the screw drive, as it may be next to impossible (or very expensive) to implement.

That being said, I did bring up a couple of thoughts - and now that FF is becoming a reality... this may actually occur:

1. 'Entry' level camera may come w/o screw drive - this will allow the cost to be 'less', but put camera owners in the spot of 'new DC only' or pony up a little more for one that supports screw drive and legacy glass
2. 'Mirrorless' level camera may come w/o screw drive. As these tend to be smaller/lighter/trendier (quieter) similar to a P&S, I expect this to occur.
3. All new DA zoom lenses may be DC only. As the 18-50mm DC 'may' replace the 18-55mm WR, do we see a trend in zooms ?
4. I don't expect much change (if any) in existing LTD primes. If anything, I'd expect a change from SDM to DC on 50-135mm and 60-250mm for 'reliability' reasons
For me, until the whole line is not replace with DC motor, it is not wise to remove the DC motor from the body. Now that most high end prime are limited and so screw drive it make even less sense.

I know for sure I would never buy if given choice a camera body compatible with K-mount that do not support screw drive. I didn't get FA77, DA15, DA21 and DA35 (plastic wonder) to buy a body without screw drive... And I think to replace the DA35 by eather FA31 or DA35 ldd and to add old FA135 to the line up.

Remove screw drive and you loose me as a customer. Start to remove on to many body, and i'll lose trust in the brand.

02-11-2015, 03:03 AM - 1 Like   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by formercanuck Quote
Just because the new FF camera has KAF3
It doesn't; there's no KAF3-mount camera. Those specs were made up (by people not entirely familiar with Pentax).
02-11-2015, 03:25 AM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
It doesn't; there's no KAF3-mount camera. Those specs were made up (by people not entirely familiar with Pentax).
+1, here what is said for K3 on US website:

Lense:

"Type/construction: PENTAX KAF2 bayonet stainless steel mount
Usable lenses: PENTAX KAF3, KAF2, KAF, and KA (K mount, 35mm screwmount, 645/67 med format lenses useable w adapter and/or restrictions)
SDM function: Yes
Power zoom function: Yes (power zoom only)"
02-11-2015, 05:39 AM   #94
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There's good reason to get rid of screw drive, backlash, which is inherent in all geared systems. I'd imagine there's a constant engineering headache between speed (looser gearing) and accuracy (tighter gearing.) There's no doubt Pentax AF suffers for it. Just speculating, it might be why Pentax does that little back-forth hesitation at the end of it's AF routine -- averaging out the slack in the gears.

That said, there's just no way a high end body would leave it out.

Also I doubt they'd bring back the aperture coupling, and I don't think they need to. There's no reason I can think of why AV mode can't combine the green and shutter button so that M and K glass can be used in aperture priority mode. Put the camera in AV, and when you press the shutter the camera stops down, meters, and then takes the photo. Max frame/sec might suffer, but who cares?

02-11-2015, 05:58 AM - 1 Like   #95
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There's a good reason to get rid of screw drive from the lenses; but not from the cameras - where it's needed for compatibility with lenses which are still being made. KAF3 lenses make sense; KAF3 cameras, don't.
(just restating your point)
02-11-2015, 10:55 AM   #96
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Not even the K-3 has a KAF3 mount; the entry-level K-S1 and midrange K-S2 have KAF2 mounts, as well. I wouldn't worry about the full frame camera having one.
02-11-2015, 11:52 AM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by WillWeaverRVA Quote
Not even the K-3 has a KAF3 mount; the entry-level K-S1 and midrange K-S2 have KAF2 mounts, as well. I wouldn't worry about the full frame camera having one.
It isn't the mount itself people are worried about. It's the presence of the screwdrive motor.
02-11-2015, 12:25 PM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by WillWeaverRVA Quote
Not even the K-3 has a KAF3 mount; the entry-level K-S1 and midrange K-S2 have KAF2 mounts, as well. I wouldn't worry about the full frame camera having one.
As Monochrome says, the issue is whether or not there is a motor to focus the lenses. Pentax made a transition to in lens motors gradually. Lenses like the DA *16-50, 50-135 and 200 have both in lens motors and the ability to be focused with screw drive. Eventually Pentax came out with lenses that were in lens motor only, like the DA 17-70 and 18-135. These are K-AF3 lenses, but to this point, Pentax hasn't released a camera without a focus motor in the camera. Nor will they. Their lens portfolio is still skewed heavily to screw driven lenses.

02-11-2015, 12:31 PM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
It isn't the mount itself people are worried about. It's the presence of the screwdrive motor.
KAF2 include screw drive support in its features while KAF3 does not. That's why you need a KAF2 body if you want screw drive.

If you prefer it being said differently, the screw drive motor is part of the mount specification of KAF2
02-11-2015, 12:52 PM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
KAF2 include screw drive support in its features while KAF3 does not. That's why you need a KAF2 body if you want screw drive.

If you prefer it being said differently, the screw drive motor is part of the mount specification of KAF2
That's true for lenses; no gears and a motor = KAF3. For the body mount, the two additional contacts formerly used for Power Zoom were re-purposed to supply power to the in-lens focus motor. There hasn't really been a mount specifically designated KAF3 on Pentax bodies, I don't think, only on lenses.

If they take away the screwdrive motor and leave everything else as it currently is configured (contacts, pins, electronic mapping) it could be called the 'really, truly, doubly crippled' KAF2 and still be KAF2 or Pentax could release a new mount spec and call it KAF3, i guess. Whatever they call it is OK with me as long as there is a body drive motor. If there isn't screwdrive a lot of current users are, well, screwed.

I guess we won't know until they release the mount specification for the FF.

Last edited by monochrome; 02-11-2015 at 01:08 PM.
02-11-2015, 01:59 PM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
There hasn't really been a mount specifically designated KAF3 on Pentax bodies, I don't think, only on lenses.
According to Bojidar Dimitrov, you are absolutely right:

Summary of the K-Mount Evolution, Names, and Features
02-11-2015, 08:12 PM   #102
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I don't think Pentax/Ricoh will get rid of the screw drive on the K mount for almost all of its gear for quite some time.

I do think that its possible that Pentax/Ricoh 'may' make an entry level or mirrorless that comes w/o the screwdrive though, and is highly discounted.
Do I think it will be soon, hell no.
Do I think it will occur in a few years... very possible.
Do I think that main stream APS-C and soon FF will still have screw drive - you bet.

Anyone remember K-500 and K-x not having focus indicators on the screen or WR.
If the primes / ltd primes ever come out with a DC motor or SDM motor, you can almost be assured that a base mirrorless / APS-C will come w/o a screwdrive as a cheaper option.
02-11-2015, 10:57 PM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
+1, here what is said for K3 on US website:

Lense:

"Type/construction: PENTAX KAF2 bayonet stainless steel mount
Usable lenses: PENTAX KAF3, KAF2, KAF, and KA (K mount, 35mm screwmount, 645/67 med format lenses useable w adapter and/or restrictions)
SDM function: Yes
Power zoom function: Yes (power zoom only)"
QuoteOriginally posted by WillWeaverRVA Quote
Not even the K-3 has a KAF3 mount; the entry-level K-S1 and midrange K-S2 have KAF2 mounts, as well. I wouldn't worry about the full frame camera having one.
I think some people is actually drowning without even getting their feet wet.

The so feared KAF3 mount is a "lens" designation and as of now, not a body spec designation. The K3 body is KAF2, but compatible with KAF3 lenses (see page 90 in K3 owner's manual)

Another detail that seems some people is struggling and debating over the new FF body specs, is about the speculations published at pentaxeros web page, which is nothing more than a copy/paste from the actual K3 specs.

According to page 81 in K3' manual, the difference between KAF2 and KAF3, is the lack of AF coupler (worm drive) like on newer DA glass like the 18-135, 16-85 and the recently annonced pro level big FF zooms or the new entry level kit zoom.

The most recent lens roadmap still shows some worm drive only glass, like the 12-24 zoom, the limiteds, the FA50 /1.4 and others that it would br a big mistake from Ricoh if the new FF body cannot autofocus them.

BTW the biggest difference between DA and FA glass, is that only the DA (and its variations like DFA, DAF) transmit the lens correction data (distorsion, CA, PF and diffraction) to the body like the K3 or new FF body, a feature probably not valued yet as it should, that may well push legacy glass owners towards new glass purchases.

CP+ is just a day away, but sadly enough, I don't believe we'll get full specs disclosure for the new FF body; probably not even the name/ code designation.

Let's hope and see. We got digital 15 yrs ago. FF is still in the womb but at least we know the stork has taken off and flying for safe delivery. Unfortunately, our baby could be an elephant (more than a year pregnancy), even though we would like our stork to fly like a falcon delivering hamsters.

So guys, lets keep doing what our beloved passion (Pentax) has made us undisputable masters: KEEP WAITING for a few months more. I am sure we are all going to be rewarded for our "Tibethian" patience.
02-12-2015, 12:04 AM   #104
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To see what Pentax might do with their FF, just observe what Nikon have done in this case, which is to keep the focus motor in all their FF bodies (and their higher-end APS-C's).

It makes sense for Nikon to do so for much the same reasons it makes sense for Pentax to do so.
02-12-2015, 12:41 AM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by formercanuck Quote
I don't think Pentax/Ricoh will get rid of the screw drive on the K mount for almost all of its gear for quite some time.

I do think that its possible that Pentax/Ricoh 'may' make an entry level or mirrorless that comes w/o the screwdrive though, and is highly discounted.
Do I think it will be soon, hell no.
Do I think it will occur in a few years... very possible.
Do I think that main stream APS-C and soon FF will still have screw drive - you bet.

Anyone remember K-500 and K-x not having focus indicators on the screen or WR.
If the primes / ltd primes ever come out with a DC motor or SDM motor, you can almost be assured that a base mirrorless / APS-C will come w/o a screwdrive as a cheaper option.
+1 No way the FF model remove a feature that would make most of the existing FF lenses no work. No way they remove it from an APSC model where most low cost and premium lenses are too using screw drive.

To start see the motor disapear we need first to have at least the kit lenses with in lens motor and a clear upgrade path for in lense motor only and that far from being the case.

I'am not holding my breath on this topic as there no doubt at all in my mind and I think most people here: there will be a screw drive motor in the FF body.
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