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02-07-2015, 11:11 AM   #1
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... So What is your Strategy?

With the announcement of the Full Frame body, what is your strategy toward your particular interest in photography? I am not trying to be negative here in the least. I am just trying to think through what are some good strategies in going forward from where we are.

The entire problem breaks down into two sections. The two ends of the focal length range (Telephoto and Wide angle), and the middle range (ala the more "normal" ranges).
  • Telephoto - i.e., Birds and such - If you are in to shooting birds, going to FF, you will loose the 50% focal length advantage with glass. Yes, you can use your current lenses, but if they are cropped, then you are using half the larger sensor, and thus still shooting at an effective 16MP (on a 35-36mp FF sensor). So, you are right back to where you started from. Going to longer FF glass, your kit is going to be larger and heavier, while your wallet substantially lighter. Also, going back to the older glass, depending on M42,K, M and A you loose AF. With F and FA you start to get into the problem of finding the lenses - unless you have saved them from using film, or tucking them away as you have found them, waiting for this to finally happen.
  • Wide Angle - i.e., 'Scapes (Land and City) - Shooting landscapes, the additional sensor size will be a plus here. However, we come to the question of glass. You get into the availability of the wider focal lengths that will cover the whole sensor - again. The traditional cropped Sigma 8-16 and DA 12-24, even on the FF body again, are only using half of it, and you are again right back to where you were with these. With lenses from film, there is the availability of the lenses. 15mm was the widest available (~111 to 100 degrees wide depending on orientation), and that was about as wide as the Sigma 8-16 at the wide end. The big gain here is doubling the resolution. Pentax has not really announced any overall approach here (... yet), so it appears its legacy glass across both Pentax and the third party to satisfy this.
  • Normal - This segment in the middle is probably the best off. The 31, 43, 50, 55, 77 and 85's are now what they were with film.
There was another thread that polled the question of staying cropped, jumping whole hog to FF or supporting both bodies. But regardless of the category you are in, that begs the question of being an early adopter, how you are going to use your current glass or acquire more/newer/legacy glass - or waiting until the glass that will support your needs becomes available. And all of this comes down to available fund$.
_______________

My strategy? Well, it going to be later in the year until the FF body is released. It will be yet another year to see what the consensus is - great, good, indifferent or pitiful. Given the K5 family, K3 and the 645D/Z, along with the pressure that Pentax/Ricoh really needs to do this right and hit a home run, right off the mark, it should be a great body.

I like the wider end of things. I have a FF 20, 25, 28 and 31 set of lenses. FF 15 and 18 have been way too expensive and the ones I have found - I was a day late and a dollar $hort. I have the Sigma 8-16 and the DA 12-24, and just "invested" in the 60-250, along with a new K5IIs, so I really do think that if I do wind up moving to FF it will be later than sooner. Probably no earlier than 2 years from now and more likely 3. I don't really know - if the real need or want is there. Then there is this little event called retirement here within the next year. So, there is a bit of wait and see how everything goes. Until then - all of my stuff still takes pictures, so I'll be taking pictures and probably not worrying about much. I am really happy with what I have actually.

Then again, by the time that I actually make a decision, a lightly used 645D and the FF may be just equal in price and less considering glass. A 35mm 645 lens, shooting at ISO 200 may be just the ticket to leapfrog the FF decision.




Last edited by interested_observer; 02-07-2015 at 12:19 PM.
02-07-2015, 11:23 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
Normal - This segment in the middle is probably the best off. The 31, 43, 50, 55, 77 and 85's are now what they were with film.
I agree with this. The main problem for me with the APSC lineup so far was that Pentax didn't really make many true APSC lenses. They were FF designs, usually projecting an FF image circle, not very fast aperture. Fuji has a great lineup - 56mm f/1.2, 23mm f/1.4, this is what the Pentax APSC lineup was missing, and this is what the FF will fix - now the Primes like DA*55mm, FA limiteds, DFA primes will truly shine, without any of the glass and image circle being wasted.
UWA was a real problem for APSC in the past, but in the recent years many great APSC UWA lenses were released by Pentax, Sigma, Tamron, Samyang.. so this argument for the FF is in fact losing power. But a lot of people have film-era 20mm, 24mm, 28mm lenses, and I'm sure they will be happy to use them on FF.
02-07-2015, 11:26 AM - 1 Like   #3
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I am so glad I am not in the predicament so many are in with so many digital lenses that won't work on FF cameras. I have a DA 35mm f2.4 and a 17-70 Sigma that I assume will not work on FF, but the balance of my collection is FF. I just can't imagine shooting with my 70-210 as an actual 70-210 again. I just got used to shooting with a crop factor. If I had the money, I would go 645D at the drop of a hat.
02-07-2015, 11:35 AM - 1 Like   #4
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100% agree!
I am exited too to the confirmation of FF camera release, but by no means I will go FF only even if the price is affordable to me. And I believe pentax will still release more advanced APS cameras in the future. and maybe, with the high pixel FF camera in the product list, the APS camera does not need to go >20 MP. (BTW, please give us a K3 with 16-18mp sensor!)

Using APS system for long end and FF for wide-135mm range is a good strategy. I use 20mm to 105mm lenses, and sometime 135mm on A7, and use 55-300, DA 300, 50-135, and sigma 170-500 on K5II, and I am very happy with that. i found I rarely need anything wider than 20mm on A7. 24mm is usually wide enough, so lens selection is not that difficult for me.

I believe APS system will not disappear in the near future that I can see.

02-07-2015, 11:43 AM - 1 Like   #5
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For telephoto the considerations are resolution, noise, size and weight, and cost. To get something close to the K3 is to buy a D810 or equivalent, which is much larger and much more expensive.

So if the full frame Pentax is only slightly larger than the K3, not more than $2500 ish, has two or three stops better noise characteristics, better AF performance, then the necessity of cropping as a negative diminishes.

Of course if Pentax releases an update to the K3 with a stop better noise, improved AF at half that price, the equation changes.

The nasty reality for Pentax is that if I took my existing gear, spent that $2k on a few days off and drove to a place nearby that has abundant wildlife I would get far better shots that if I spent the money and stayed at work.
02-07-2015, 11:55 AM   #6
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There are no strategy to be made... whatever lens I have will continue to work on the Pentax FF even the DA lenses will work (in crop mode) on the new FF camera; just like the D750 in Nikon.
02-07-2015, 12:17 PM   #7
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It would seem like the greatest gain to be had is for those doing indoor or low light events. With the new shorter telephoto you would have a great indoor sporting setup and a key lens for outdoor sports that is weather resistant. In fact with both new lenses pentax would be wise to try to get some sports photographers using and endorsing their gear on the sidelines.
02-07-2015, 01:16 PM   #8
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Let's be honest. I don't want to have 2 bodies (APSC, FF) to move when I am for longer focal or shorter focals. I don't want to be heavy or spend much more than I did already (and I really did).

I have DA15, DA21, DA35 f/2.4, FA77. I already sold DA17-70, FA50 & DA50-135... Just because I moving toward prime. I still think just to cover what I want of a 135mm to have a longer tele. 77 cover most of the need but not all. I don't know yet if it would be the TC on the 77, a 135mm or 135mm and later a TC to cover 200mm in a light package.

If I go FF I'll need to add to that at least a 24, 35, 135, 2000. This is going to cost at least 2000$ put on top of a 2000$ body I can round the cost to 5000$. For that I wouldn't even have the greatest 35 mm or 135mm just the old FAs. To replace them with FA31 + yet to be released new update 135mm well that at least 2000$ more. So 7000$ for great FF geat that would really perform better.

I mean if really I wanted an FF, going Canikon would likely be less costly because there already a full range of lenses with many that are now quite affordable.

No, moving FF is not going to be a good idea for me on the years to come.

02-07-2015, 01:20 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
With the announcement of the Full Frame body, what is your strategy toward your particular interest in photography? I am not trying to be negative here in the least. I am just trying to think through what are some good strategies in going forward from where we are.

The entire problem breaks down into two sections. The two ends of the focal length range (Telephoto and Wide angle), and the middle range (ala the more "normal" ranges).
  • Telephoto - i.e., Birds and such - If you are in to shooting birds, going to FF, you will loose the 50% focal length advantage with glass. Yes, you can use your current lenses, but if they are cropped, then you are using half the larger sensor, and thus still shooting at an effective 16MP (on a 35-36mp FF sensor). So, you are right back to where you started from. Going to longer FF glass, your kit is going to be larger and heavier, while your wallet substantially lighter. Also, going back to the older glass, depending on M42,K, M and A you loose AF. With F and FA you start to get into the problem of finding the lenses - unless you have saved them from using film, or tucking them away as you have found them, waiting for this to finally happen.


Telephoto is awesome on FF. Tracking is at least twice as easy. My strategy is to get more keepers with a FF lens.
02-07-2015, 01:37 PM   #10
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My strategy is use what I have as best as I can.. in a year or more, once used prices on the FF body come around, I will consider it. This is tripley beneficial to me in that it will also give the body plenty of time to be tested and reviewed as well as stabilized with firmware revisions.

One pays for being on the cutting edge by bleeding a little. Not my thing.

That said, I would probably sell my K-5II and APS-C wide angle lenses but keep the 55-300 WR to use in crop mode with the FF body. A lot of the older Pentax lenses seem to have major issues with CA and flaring. Plus no weather sealing. So I'd probably look at whatever 24-70ish lens they come out with that is AW/WR with the newer coatings. Looking forward to seeing how the DA 35 f/2.5 and 50 f/1.8 handle on the new body.
02-07-2015, 01:41 PM   #11
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I have got some fine glass, however, I am missing something in the 20/21mm range with stunning IQ. I am a big fan of the Zeiss Distagon 21mm, but I would prefer pancake version and would prefer the size of a Voigtländer Color Skopar 20mm f/3.5 if image quality degradation is not too much (and I would prefer 20mm over 21mm). I have been watching various platforms for used lenses but did not find good ones within the last 1,5 years ... there were only the Kiron/Cosina/Vivitar 20mm which are said to be not really good due to older design with flare and missing sharpness, same goes with the russian lenses. The (F)A20mm did not show up. I hope Pentax comes up with one lens soon ... my dream would be a pancake sized 20mm f/4 or f/5.6 similar to the DA 15mm performance wise, but sharper especially focused at infinity. My FA* 24mm is not wide enought and on APS-C I have never been really satisfied with it ...
Maybe I go with the Pentax multimount and buy a Nikon version of the 21mm Zeiss but it's a too large lens for my taste and bringing on the multimount adapter on the cam makes weather resistance obsolete :-/ ... otherwise I buy a Sony A7 II but the money would be better invested in a fa43 and fa77.
I will decide when the specs are out and I can order the Pentax FF ;-) ... until then it's time to work hard and save money, I might get another job ... not that I am bored, its Saturday evening here and I am still working :-D
02-07-2015, 01:56 PM   #12
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I had a good strategy over the years. So for that FF I have FA 31mm, DA*55mm, FA*85mm and DA*300mm. Just in my bag new is the aps-c only lens HD DA 20-40mm.

So the HD DA lens is for on a K-01 to be used as a holiday set or street or so.

Then the question on the FF. Well as long as the current market for photography keeps shrinking as fast as it has in the past years overhere, there is little to invest (economical responsible). So will I get a FF? I think yes, but maybe in 2016.......

02-07-2015, 02:39 PM   #13
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There is no real strategy. Just a bit of a learning curve. Everything shifts down one. The stuff I used the 31mm on before would need to use the 43. The stuff I used a 50mm on a crop before...with the FF I would use the 77 and so on and so forth.

At the end of the day it's just a minor adaptation.

All that said if I can find good subject matter, find or create awesome lighting, and I can come up with some awesome composure and exposure then the rest of the stuff to adapt to a FF sensor I can learn pretty quickly.
02-07-2015, 02:58 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
... So What is your Strategy?
Me and the "Ladies" sitting quietly on the side just waiting for it all to happen.
02-07-2015, 05:59 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by alamo5000 Quote
<snip> Just a bit of a learning curve. Everything shifts down one. The stuff I used the 31mm on before would need to use the 43. The stuff I used a 50mm on a crop before...with the FF I would use the 77 and so on and so forth.
QuoteOriginally posted by Kerrowdown Quote
Me and the "Ladies" sitting quietly on the side just waiting for it all to happen.
Yes, my Princesses smile shyly in anticipation.

But the long end of the DA55~300 fears the oncoming light.

Until the last year or so almost all I ever bought was old or NOS K-series and A or FA lenses; recently I've bought several new FA lenses. That is to say my strategy has always been to buy lenses for the eventual FF body

Last edited by monochrome; 02-07-2015 at 06:34 PM.
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