Originally posted by jsherman999 What I've seen (Thom Hogan and one other source I can't recall) is that the sensor in the D3x cost Nikon $400 more than the one they used in the D300 ($50), both bought from Sony, although (reportedly) including some design specs provided by Nikon. That delta has since reportedly been reduced in the latest bodies.
So that was cost to Nikon (buyer,) not to Sony (Manufacturer,) so that removes one of your markup items. Re the rest, I don't know why the sensor markup would be on a separate schedule and not just bundled with the overall camera markup.
Regardless, I suspect we could estimate a FF sensor
costing Pentax between $200 and $400 more per camera. And yes, there will be additional costs as itemized but I doubt that all the additional costs would surpass that big sensor delta, or even match it. A mirror might cost Pentax $20, a FF one maybe $30, ASICS $25 to $50, and that's the biggest costs. A motor costs very little, you can buy motors of the same torque requirements from Edmunds *retail* for $9. Aside from the R&D costs and sensor the actual parts don't cost as much more as people think.
Even if all the additional parts cost cost as much as the sensor, we're looking at a markup of $800 over the cost of the K3 to get Pentax as much per-unit profit as the K3 gets now. A markup of more gives more.. so if a K3 is making a profit at $1000, the K-FF makes the same profit (not % profit, same dollar value) at around $1800. If it sells for $2500, it makes and
additional $700 per body, which could be applied toward a ROI schedule we presume. Then there are the additional lenses sold...
(mainly what I'm getting at is that Pentax will probably make a profit with this venture unless the bottom falls out of the DSLR market
)
I don't disagree with your conclusion, Jay, but you're flipping between Sony's loading dock, Ricoh's loading dock and B&H's loading dock.
I meant to write what it costs Ricoh-Japan to bring 1 K-FF to their loading dock; the question isolated the cost of the Sony Sensor TO RICOH-Japan, at Japan's loading dock - what price they sell them to Ricoh Imaging Americas for.
Ricoh Imaging Americas marks that price up to compensate their salespeople, overhead and to make a profit in that Division. So what's the cost at Ricoh Imaging Americas' loading dock after their markup?
That's what B&H pays. B&H marks up the camera
again to cover
their overhead and salesman (if a phone order) - so does your $800 total markup over the cost of the parts apply at Ricoh-Japan, Ricoh-Americas or B&H?
If the K-FF MSRP at launch is $2,649 (given the strong dollar), does that mean the price at Ricoh-Japan loading dock was $1,325, including the FF sensor that cost them $200 - $300 - $400 more than the APSc to buy from Sony? I think we also have to include a likely different (faster of larger or dual) Milbeaut Image Processor, faster or larger or dual Bus, larger shutter - maybe faster and more durable, too (Seikosha? it can't be a Copal shutter), larger prism (including R&D cost), a rumored new IBIS system, and maybe another technology surprise, plus general engineering expense for the entire thing. The financial guys do a complete cost-accounting routine on the entire product (including run-time cost of manufacturing which isn't much different than any other camera body), and
Add a profit margin for RICOH-Japan at the
shipping dock. Once the camera goes out the back door all of Ricoh-Japan's profit is earned - everything that happens afterward is someone else's profit.
But everyone after japan (Americas, B&H) mark up a percentage - not a dollar amount - because that's what businesses do. Businesses take a percentage of Gross Revenue. A higher dollar final cost item has a higher dollar final profit / unit
because it is higher dollar. Of course, unit volume is lower than for lower dollar units, so Gross Revenue (and Gross Profit) may be equivalent. so:
- A FF sensor that cost RICOH-Japan (for example) $300 to buy from Sony might cost a consumer (for example) $600 to buy from B&H
- Depending on which price point Ricoh targets, the FF camera they release might cost $1,325 at the RICOH-Japan loading dock and $2,650 at the retail customer point-of-sale - IOW Ricoh-Japan's cost might actually be higher than a K-3 Retail, end-consumer price.
If it really is targeted at professional photographers I doubt it will be much less than $2,700 MSRP (controlled for the strong dollar).