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02-21-2015, 03:25 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
I doubt Ricoh will do a 50 MP FF in 2015.
And they won't either. If so, they have changed their goals and targets for the camera just recently. They have been so determined on what they want with the FF, so it would really really surprise me.

02-21-2015, 04:50 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I think this is a very good reason. . If the FF would Come soon it would run on PRIME II , but I guess that we will have the New milbeaut on board by the time the FF reaches the market. So that would be like 50 % faster processing then currently inside K-3. I think 8 50MP 16-bit RAW would take the time to drink Coffee.
Well , Ron , we have to realize that Ricoh already has the processing electronics and firmware for processing either 24Mpix (K-3) or 51Mpixel (645Z), using the same D-LI90 battery as used in K-5 and K-3.
So, with minimum engineering efforts, they could either make a 24Mp Full Frame @ 8 frames/sec or 50Mp Full Frame @ 4 frames/s . Most of the time, burst mode is not used, but the sensor is used every time.

---------- Post added 02-21-15 at 12:56 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
I think that if Pentax plans to only launch a single FF for the time being, it should have a higher resolution than the K-3 as one of its selling points. At the same time, it should have lower noise. Thus, a 36 megapixel sensor would fit the bill perfectly.

I doubt that they will use a 50 Mp sensor since a) it was only just launched by Canon and b) it might undermine the 645Z's high-res appeal.
If they use the 36Mpix sensor, they have to redesign image processing electronics, while if they use a 24Mp or 50Mp sensor , they can reuse the IP block already designed for the K-3 or 645Z. I think for Ricoh, reusing some of the 645Z technology is an advantage to keep up with competitors. The key survival skill for smaller companies like Pentax, is to have more efficient use of resource.
02-21-2015, 09:03 AM   #33
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51mp FF camera would obviously hurt the 645Z. I think their best bet is 36mp
02-21-2015, 09:37 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Well , Ron , we have to realize that Ricoh already has the processing electronics and firmware for processing either 24Mpix (K-3) or 51Mpixel (645Z), using the same D-LI90 battery as used in K-5 and K-3.
So, with minimum engineering efforts, they could either make a 24Mp Full Frame @ 8 frames/sec or 50Mp Full Frame @ 4 frames/s . Most of the time, burst mode is not used, but the sensor is used every time.
That will be no problem. The 645D run on PRIME engine from the K-7 and worked fine, only waiting time up to 4 seconds for an image.

The delay I was refurring to was the option to stack images, by sensor shift to create better images. If they put that insede the camera and they use 8 images with sensor shift to put them together to get a same pixelcount as Original, but better image quality to go to 16-bit RAW, then the engine has to chew some time on those files. When they start with 50 megapixel, then I guess that one image will take up to 10 seconds to create.

02-21-2015, 09:47 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by RKKS08 Quote
So, from theory, resolutionwise the 24MPs of the K-3 should be more than any 24x36 film camera ever could achieve.
That may have been true when the article was written, but the MTF for currently available B&W films indicate somewhat greater resolution than what is available resolution current 36 Mpx sensors, not that it makes any real difference under field conditions. At the end of the day, in the hands of a competent photographer, any current model dSLR and 35mm film camera are capable of delivering comparable results. Where things get interesting is when the ante is upped to 6x7 and larger film.


Steve

(...still shoots both film and 24Mpx digital...)
02-21-2015, 09:51 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I'm using the A7m2 with its 24MP sensor and I'm not having any issues printing A3+ which is my target size. I'm not opposed to 36 or more mega-pickles, but resolution past 24MP is not a priority for me.
My thoughts as well and as normhead would point out, you can go much larger if you allow that the viewer will not be standing 10" from your print


Steve
02-21-2015, 09:55 AM   #37
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Still using 16mpix and have newer even thinked need more than that. But many times wanted less noise in high ISO. So my answer is 16-24mpix only. 36+ mpix is not needed for me, just wasting memory space. But for marketing reasons, pentax can not do that so I bet FF will be 36mpix.
02-21-2015, 09:56 AM - 1 Like   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
So, with minimum engineering efforts...
I love that term! ROFL...

As if we know what the effort might be (can't stop laughing) and the amount of engineering resource available to put to the task. (Engineers, after all, are material resource, eh? Sort of like processors in a computer. Set them up in a parallel array and the work simply flies out!)


Steve


(...sorry, could not resist. That kind of language is so common on this site, though usually in relation to highly-desired features that are only a few lines of firmware code from reality...all firmly tongue-in-cheek...)


Last edited by stevebrot; 02-21-2015 at 02:10 PM.
02-21-2015, 10:45 AM - 1 Like   #39
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Yes, probably 36Mp is the right choice from the marketing point of view. But still, Sony A7s seems to be the most appreciated from the entire range of A7. Because it has the best low light performance. And even enthusiast will rarely use 36Mp at full potential, for print. Most will want that big Mp for crop.

I hope that Pentax will find a way around, cause I will not buy a 36 or more. I'd like a very clean 24, much cleaner than K-3' in low light.
02-21-2015, 10:47 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
I'd like a very clean 24, much cleaner than K-3' in low light.
Would surprise me if not. Even my 6 year old D700 is waaaaaaay better then the K-3.
02-21-2015, 11:21 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
My thoughts as well and as normhead would point out, you can go much larger if you allow that the viewer will not be standing 10" from your print


Steve
I think I've posted this here before ... an oldie, but a goodie... 12MP, printed as big as you like... just stand back a bit...

F5 VS. D700 (Film VS. Digital) @ ??? Xuite ??

(spoiler: From 'The Gadget Show' a while back... D700 vs ISO400 film... digital wins.)
02-21-2015, 11:59 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
I'd like a very clean 24, much cleaner than K-3' in low light.
D610/D750 resolution - and low-light performance - is OK by me too. 24MP will also keep the price-point lower.

But if Pentax have the tech to do a lighter D810 clone (36MP with similar low light to 24MP, still keeping 5 or 6 fps, and a flippy screen ) that would still be a desirable camera for many categories of serious user (studio, weddings, landscape, architectural). 36MP would make marketing sense too, since the Pentax FF would be competing for attention alongside 36MP Nikon and Sony, and now 50MP Canon's too.
02-21-2015, 02:25 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
Would surprise me if not. Even my 6 year old D700 is waaaaaaay better then the K-3.
The sensor is more then double the size of the K3, so yeah, that is way FF rules.
Nothing beats cubic inch as they say, or in this case, square inch.
02-21-2015, 02:28 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
The sensor is more then double the size of the K3, so yeah, that is way FF rules.
Exactly. They promised me from the start, that a FF would come. It helped me to sign the contract and leave Nikon. Would be pissed if they didn't do it It was the whole package thought, but still..hehe
02-21-2015, 05:18 PM   #45
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Actually, the choice looks simple. Quantity vs quality.

There is quantity, in terms of Mp, on the market? Yes, a lot.

There are very good quality cameras, in terms of image quality even in harsh, low light condition? There are some, but not so many.

We have only bright sunny days? I wish.

We have a lot of cloudy days, with rain and snow? Yes.

We are making pictures inside, in low light conditions? Yes.

We are living a part of our lives in the night time, being active? Yes.

We would like to make very good pictures in any kind of condition, without carring a lot of lights, and without blinding our friends with our strobe? I do.

Do you want to spend a lot of time cleaning pictures? I don't.

Maybe you want the same too.
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