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03-20-2015, 04:26 PM   #76
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I wonder why. I just wonder why some not professionals photographers will need more than 20Mp. Why they don't opt for a clean image, straight from the cameras, instead of some noisy 36Mp or more image?. I just wonder!

I've checked the image from Canon 6D, and other FF cameras, and for me, 6D is the best. Why do we need a lot of Mp in ours shacking hands? Just to show of?

03-20-2015, 04:39 PM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
the film guys just can't let go
That is because the evidence is on our side


Steve
03-20-2015, 04:48 PM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by HoustonBob Quote
The highest resolution COLOR film, as far as I know, was ISO 25 Kodachrome. Kodachrome 25 had a resolution of approximately 50 lp/mm.
It was the finest grained color reversal film at the time which is not quite the same as highest resolution. IIRC, the current tabular-grain negative films (e.g. Ektar 100) resolve at about 100 lp/mm with the specialty monochrome materials capable of going twice that.

All that being said, a direct comparison that is acceptable from the point of view of pictoral photography is difficult. Both media types are capable of providing exquisite detail for common print sizes as well as on-screen viewing. The scale tips in favor of monochrome silver-based photography for tonality at present, but that may change in the future.

It is a little like comparing oils to acrylic for paintings.


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03-20-2015, 04:49 PM - 2 Likes   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
I wonder why. I just wonder why some not professionals photographers will need more than 20Mp. Why they don't opt for a clean image, straight from the cameras, instead of some noisy 36Mp or more image?. I just wonder!

I've checked the image from Canon 6D, and other FF cameras, and for me, 6D is the best. Why do we need a lot of Mp in ours shacking hands? Just to show of?
The Online Photographer: Myths About Megapixels (...And, Does the D800 Have Too Many?)
The Real Megapixel Myth
Contrary to conventional wisdom, higher resolution actually compensates for noise - DxOMark

03-20-2015, 04:51 PM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
Why do we need a lot of Mp in ours shacking hands? Just to show of?
But of course!


Steve
03-20-2015, 06:16 PM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dr_who Quote
I agree. I've seen so many nice pictures taken with K5 and K5 II/s on these forums. I can't imagine people saying 16MP isn't enough in cropped mode.
It's almost perfect for most work, even at 24" x 36". I'd actually be ok with 12MP if it were less noisy.

Although I agree that in crop mode 16MP is going to be just fine, large prints (or canvas prints) at poster sizes for private use are often viewed from ridiculously close distances, so 50MP would be nice, assuming the stars line up and the shot is sharp.. but I don't like betting business on a dice roll.

And I'm not actually sure that going to 24MP would help, or be a difference from 16MP, so I'm thinking 16MP is going to be fine.

I usually know in advance which shot/sequence is going to be selected by clients for big printing, so I use the K-5 for that, instead of the K20D. Even then the ~2MP difference doesn't make much difference, since I might crop a smidge anyway.

Did any of the *ist users chime in? Some of the best work I've seen (at least online) is from very low MP cameras by users here.
03-20-2015, 06:47 PM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by noser Quote
It's almost perfect for most work, even at 24" x 36". I'd actually be ok with 12MP if it were less noisy.
In the case of the A7s, it really doesn't give you a cleaner file than the A7r until after 6400 ISO. At lower ISO the A7r and the A7 have better color, resolution, & DR and the A7s. On top of that the A7s has the newest sensor of the three. The A7 is using the oldest sensor of the three. Unless you most shoot at ISO 6400 you aren't going to get less noise and you give up IQ at lower ISOs. If they can make a 12 or 16MP sensor that is better (DR/Noise/Color) across all ISOs, then I'm all for it, but I don't want to give up the quality at lower ISOs.
03-20-2015, 07:26 PM   #83
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Thanks those helped me.

03-21-2015, 02:23 AM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Ricoh has to keep improving the AF speed and accuracy.
They do work on that issue.
03-21-2015, 02:29 AM   #85
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I have a 20X30" print from a K20D (14.6 MP) made for me by a professional lab. Of course, from 10 cm viewing distance you can se some resolution blur, but then again a 20X30" print isn't made for being viewed at that distance. From one meter or longer it looks very nice.
I also have home-printed A4 prints. I'm not very skilled in pp and printing, and my printer is far from pro grade. These shots were taken with the *istDS (6 MP) and K20D bodies, and I can see very fine details even from 10 cm with reading-glasses on.
Maybe it is a myth that more pixels degrade the DR and high iso capacity, but for sure it slows down processing both in camera and in the computer. And I can't see the need for more than ~15 MP, even for very large prints. My 40" HD TV screen shows a whooping 2.1 MP, and people admire the clarity and sharpness it gives my images.

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03-21-2015, 04:46 AM   #86
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And I've made a 40" wide print of a very detailed 110Mp original (lots of pictures stitched together). When people sees it they move closer and closer until there noses almost touches the print and all they find is even more details. I kind of like that.
03-21-2015, 08:07 AM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
And I've made a 40" wide print of a very detailed 110Mp original (lots of pictures stitched together). When people sees it they move closer and closer until there noses almost touches the print and all they find is even more details. I kind of like that.
That is one of the things I don't think people realize and what I was about to write. A good large print will draw people in closer and closer. I never understood the "It looks fine from 50 feet." concept. Good prints should get better and more interesting as the viewer moves closer and discovers more details.

---------- Post added 03-21-15 at 10:08 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
They do work on that issue.
I know they do and I hope the new FF lenses with the DC motors help close the gap.
03-21-2015, 11:03 AM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Really?? This kind of stuff is what is fueling the MP war, even though MP is not really that important. Are photos today, with the high resolution cameras, really that much better or more important than photos in the past, taken with 6MP cameras or film?
Yes. I crop substantially and the K3 added about 100mm effective length simply from increased resolution. My limitation now is noise.

The 645z folks are seeing details in their photos that were not apparent before.

Higher resolution is good. Not everyone would need or use it, but many do.
03-21-2015, 11:26 AM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
And I've made a 40" wide print of a very detailed 110Mp original (lots of pictures stitched together). When people sees it they move closer and closer until there noses almost touches the print and all they find is even more details. I kind of like that.
QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
Yes. I crop substantially and the K3 added about 100mm effective length simply from increased resolution. My limitation now is noise.

The 645z folks are seeing details in their photos that were not apparent before.

Higher resolution is good. Not everyone would need or use it, but many do.
Good comments!!! I get tired of reading that with large prints - one should not look at them close but afar. The realty of large parts of the country, is that many galleries are small. And if they put in large, almost poster like prints, the viewers are GOING to be closer. I remember looking at one large poster-like image and it was fuzzier than a rabbit. No way would i but that, even for a large home - or if it owned a business for that matter. What kills a lot of images is poor technique and/or the use of NR. NR kills images for large size - although one can get by with 8x10 or 8x12 prints. Blow it up 30" or 36" and it looks bad.

With regard to the K3 - it amazes me with the detail. Pentax's combination of no-AA and 24mp surprised even this cynic. And the ability to crop down to the subject area allows one to get by with shorter glass. So there is some wisdom to what folks are buying.
05-16-2015, 08:44 AM   #90
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Hmmm...

I hope you're right, Winder...A D750 killer would be impressive, let alone a D810 slayer...AF, DR etc....there is a lot riding on this FF primarily, for me, because the Pentax ecosystem is at stake. I absolutely love the weather sealing and performance of the K-3 but I'm a bit concerned about the bets being placed on pixel shift and what the real world results/restrictions will be. I am very anxious to see some hands on reviews by experienced people here with the K-3 ii, for example. If the full frame consists of any "deal breakers" for experienced shooters, then that may affect their choice of gear/brand in the form of primary and second bodies, lenses and lighting. I really, really hope they get it right because I love the Pentax community. It's going to be an agonizing wait...
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