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02-27-2015, 04:18 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
This price already have the 21% sales tax.. so is €2000 and not 2420 ... I dont know if im wrong.. but the sales tax at the US depends of the state right? so my guess is that the price at the US COULD BE lower than the €2000.
In Europe we advertise prices including all taxes.

02-28-2015, 08:42 AM   #62
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There is no way they can know the price yet. Camera isn't even 100% set yet.
02-28-2015, 09:08 AM   #63
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We are all still speculating on speculation... with that in mind, 2000-2200 USD for the FF body brand new is welcome news to me. Especially considering the cost of the fancy new lenses to go with it.

If they had priced the body at 2500+ then it would have been way out of reach for me. And I think there are more people with 2000 dollars than with 3000+. More importantly, the higher tier the FF body in performance, the more attractive it looks over the MF body it seems to me. I still suspect we will see an updated "K-3" with a FF sensor, Which seems attractive to me and sandwiched nicely between the K-3 and the 645Z. Just glad they are releasing a modern, digital FF body.
02-28-2015, 09:26 AM   #64
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Looks good to me... it's low enough priced to be part of my regular upgrade cycle if i decide to go that route...I'd still have to decide, whereto or not I want that body or a 300 ƒ2.8 lens. I think the lens would probably do more for me.

Oh by the way, some people need to learn what vapour ware is.
As pointed out, it's a product announcement of an imaginary product designed see what kind of market i out there for said product. Made famous by Microsoft. They'd look at a product like Photoshop, then announce a high end photo editing software package, they'd see how many they could sell, if they don't sell enough, they cancel the product before research and development even begins. About the poor dude who pre-ordered and was expecting product to be shipped, they don't give a a rat's derriere about him. Part of the idea was to slow down a competitors sales while they made up their minds. Microsoft could do this because so many people believed Microsoft was the be all and end all of computing, and that if Microsoft released a product, it would be perfect for them. After all Photoshop wasn't made by Microsoft so obviously it could be done better. (Honest, people used to think like this.)

The Pentax thing has been the opposite of vapourware. Pentax actually lost customers because they were so close to the vest with the FF. It was partly because people can't read. Pentax execs said way back before Christmas that the FF was next in line after the 645z for their development team. If they had actually right then said "it's coming" instead of framing things the way they did, where many forum nay sayers claimed the FF wasn't coming, they might have staved off a few defections to Nikon and Canon. Folks like Easyrider, who was clearly the target audience in the full frame market are conspicuously absent these days as are many other long time Pentax loyalists. The number of sceptics out there, who need to be bashed in the head with a Pentax FF camera before they even believe it's coming have definitely not been a boon to Pentax in that regard.

So, using vapourware in reference to the Pentax FF, please.... act like you know the term.

As for having a 36 MP camera to go between the 51 Mp 645z and 24 MP APS-c, again I see some real market savy there. And if it is 36 MP , you'd need to be comparing it to the A7r, not the A7. They do what I think they should do. If you want a 24MP camera, they make one. If you want a 36 MP camera they make one. If you want a 51 MP camera they make one. People hung up on format need to understand what they are saying here. It's a loud and clear message. The only big advantage to FF is, it's resolution niche. The rest is relatively insignificant.


Last edited by normhead; 02-28-2015 at 09:36 AM.
02-28-2015, 03:28 PM - 1 Like   #65
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To my mind the cameras price probably reflects its capabilities and qualities. Too cheap and will be very unremarkable.
I agree that there's no way the price is set finally yet.
02-28-2015, 03:36 PM   #66
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Fortunately, it doesn't matter much what we think.... but it sure is fun thinking it.
02-28-2015, 04:07 PM   #67
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IMO, because Pentax is so late with his FF, it's possible to choose a lower price for launch, to be seem as an alternative even for Canikon users. More if we try to estimate the numbers of potential Pentax users that want this FF, is very likely in my opinion that Ricoh choose a low price strategy for this launch.

So, is hazardous to assume that this camera is low in specification and performance, based only by price level.

We see that a very good camera, K-3, has a price of 800$, even that is only 18month old, and no potential replacement is on the horizon, AFAIK. Was launched on double this price, because was much expected, by a big proportion of Pentax APS-C users. Now, nobody knows how many will go to the FF system, so, a low price strategy is rational.
03-03-2015, 06:32 PM   #68
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If a newly developed pentax ff is announced for october this year, they should at least be testing for quality issues on pre production models and the production engineers might be busy with production lines and assembly issues. Dates for arriving at BandH are already set. Everybody in the Pentax FF proyect is having a little less sleep these days. IMO, if those that think there's no camera built yet are correct, it means that this one is for next year!


Last edited by Caribe; 03-03-2015 at 06:39 PM.
03-04-2015, 12:28 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
very likely in my opinion that Ricoh choose a low price strategy for this launch.
I tend to agree. Have no clue though :-) It seems a way to draw people into the system.
Especially with sony & nikon delivering on FF around 2000 and even lower..
03-04-2015, 07:37 AM   #70
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How much markup does everyone think are in cameras? From a retailers perspective... 30%? 25%? How much more to the manufacture? another 30%? I would bet it's even tighter than that.

I don't think you can compare prices to the A7 series, the fact that Sony makes their own sensors is probably giving the manufacture a strong discount. Nikon/Pentax are buying sensors from Sony, I bet they charge more to them than they do themselves any day of the week. If I was a betting man I would assume a 50% markup when Sony sells the chips to other camera companies. It's Sony's bread and butter right now, the only division making money for them.


If Pentax are trying to punch into the D810/5DMKIII weight class (which I do think they are), they will NOT 100% will NOT price it like a D610. I don't even think it will be $2300. People will wonder why a camera that is touting to be a D810 competitor is priced like an entry level full frame.... consumers will be cautious. What shortcuts did they take? Is it cheap knockoff? They won't even touch it.

They are not looking for a volume mover, they are looking for a tribute to the fans and something for the professionals and advanced amateurs to raise an eyebrow too and think twice about the Canikons.

I'm still betting a $2500-$3000 price point, closer to $3000.

Technology still costs money. If they spec it like a D810, it will be priced like a D810. We saw that already with the 70-200 f2.8.
03-04-2015, 08:04 AM   #71
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Exactly wired.... I look at the Pentax FF as being at least D810 quality. At this point, I'm as likely to buy a Pentax FF as i would be a D810 system. It's an alternative. But I'd still look at both and do the math. Same as I would for any purchase. And because the Pentax stuff is coming out all new, it's going to be premium priced compared to Nikon equipment for a year to two.

When I did that for a D610 and K-3, the K-3 was the clear winner. I have many Pentax lenses so a Pentax FF would have a clear advantage, but you have to look down the road. What is the minimum set up I'd be happy with? On FF, I'd be looking at the Pentax 70-200, and a good wide angle 2.8 zoom, and it's already more than I want to pay, without even looking at a body.

Pentax isn't going to make a 24 MP FF, just to please everyone who is convinced there's a big difference between 24 MP FF and 24MP APS-c. Those cameras are so close functionally it would be hard for a small company to support them both. And Pentax would be foolish to go 24 MP FF and give up 24 MP APS-c.

But it sure will be nice if all the self assured "I need an FF so I can go pro." types had an outlet for their pent up desire to buy something. We'll be able to say, "well then, you need Full Frame, save your pennies." It's on them, not Pentax.

Knowing this guys with his 2 D4s bodies and full Nikon Pro kit, as a really advanced amateur/ semi-professional, it's kind of ironic hearing people say they re "going pro" with their D610s.


Last edited by normhead; 03-04-2015 at 08:13 AM.
03-04-2015, 09:51 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
There is no way they can know the price yet. Camera isn't even 100% set yet.

It's already long time ago when the price of the new product calculated starting from the production costs. Now a days the price will be decided first by knowing the worth of the brand, competition, market situation etc.
So for sure Ricoh knows the price, and may be also their cooperators.
03-04-2015, 09:53 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
If Pentax are trying to punch into the D810/5DMKIII weight class (which I do think they are), they will NOT 100% will NOT price it like a D610. I don't even think it will be $2300. People will wonder why a camera that is touting to be a D810 competitor is priced like an entry level full frame.... consumers will be cautious. What shortcuts did they take? Is it cheap knockoff? They won't even touch it.

They are not looking for a volume mover, they are looking for a tribute to the fans and something for the professionals and advanced amateurs to raise an eyebrow too and think twice about the Canikons.

I'm still betting a $2500-$3000 price point, closer to $3000.
Technology still costs money. If they spec it like a D810, it will be priced like a D810. We saw that already with the 70-200 f2.8.
I hope you are right. I want it to be a camera that fully justifies a high price. (Such as "somecurrency"-3000). I don't want it to be a camera that has to be sold at an "affordable price", whatever that means. (Such as "somecurrency"-2000).
03-04-2015, 10:09 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by markku55 Quote
It's already long time ago when the price of the new product calculated starting from the production costs. Now a days the price will be decided first by knowing the worth of the brand, competition, market situation etc.
So for sure Ricoh knows the price, and may be also their cooperators.
Exactly, if they couldn't do something special at the "price" marketing would never have signed off on it, and Pentax always made clear, it was a marketing decision, not a technical one.
03-04-2015, 12:53 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
it's kind of ironic hearing people say they re "going pro" with their D610s.

What does that really mean these days where everyone you know and their neighbor are photographer.?

You can go pro with a nice set of K-01.
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