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03-11-2015, 06:33 AM   #211
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I just looked up USD to JPY and EUR, yep, I see two vacation places for me this year.

03-11-2015, 08:33 AM   #212
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
And people from Britain are most likely of all to pay higher prices (no offence, Barry - and I hope it won't be the case)
Chuckle! No offense taken!

I admit I'm a special case. I'm 67 and retired. One of the few advantages with being that age is that I have reliable pension income, no debts (and mortgage paid off), and no dependents.

I'm not sure why we in the UK end up paying more, but it has been happening for many years. Perhaps we've become soft after all those years building then losing a global empire!
03-11-2015, 10:02 AM   #213
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Why should a FF cost 2x the price of a leading APS-C?

The model seems to indicate a body size roughly the same as the K5/K3 apart from the required spread of the mirror box. The processing/storage/actuators would all need to be moved up in spec to cope with the larger sensor, but at the end of the day the only thing that will be significantly more expensive will be the sensor. The Sony A7R is selling for ~$2100 and the A7ii is ~$1700. If Sony are selling their cameras at above cost price, then this would be a good clue as to the price difference between 24MP and 36MP FF...

The K3 launched at $1300, is there any reason to expect a 36MP FF to be more than $2000?

;-)
03-11-2015, 10:12 AM   #214
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QuoteOriginally posted by phoebus Quote
The Sony A7R is selling for ~$2100 and the A7ii is ~$1700. If Sony are selling their cameras at above cost price, then this would be a good clue as to the price difference between 24MP and 36MP FF...
Sony supply their own sensor, Phoebus, are mirrorless, and aggressively priced.

What happens when you apply your cost analysis to the Nikon equivalents? ;-)

03-11-2015, 11:00 AM   #215
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Sony supply their own sensor, Phoebus, are mirrorless, and aggressively priced.

What happens when you apply your cost analysis to the Nikon equivalents? ;-)


Another way to look at it...Like any good supplier, they should have a dealer non-compete type agreement, meaning they can't undercut their dealers pricing direct to the public. Yes, this is harder to monitor with regards to parts going into a finished product, but you get the idea.

So... considering that Nikon probably moves a hell of a lot more sensors than Sony does in their own camera's, and Sony prolly doesn't want to lose that business to someone else (and there is always someone else waiting to ramp up production) then Sony "should" sell sensors to others at a reasonable fair market price, perhaps lower than what they cost factor into their own assembled units, and play nice.

Eric
03-11-2015, 11:27 AM   #216
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QuoteOriginally posted by Erictator Quote
then Sony "should" sell sensors to others at a reasonable fair market price, perhaps lower than what they cost factor into their own assembled units, and play nice.
What a lovely world you live in, Eric, can I come too? :-D

For instance, the A7S sensor is sold to nobody else currently.

Last edited by clackers; 03-11-2015 at 11:34 AM.
03-11-2015, 11:54 AM   #217
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
What a lovely world you live in, Eric, can I come too? :-D

For instance, the A7S sensor is sold to nobody else currently.

Hey, somebody asked for possibilities with "what happens when...". I happen to have run a small business since 1987. I have MANY similar non-compete agreements with major manufacturers.
Many of them eventually find ways to break those contracts... they all come back eventually and want to start with a clean slate too. It is a foot in the door to dealers.


The dealer channel is a constant fight for territory and margin. Manufacturers woo dealers at first because dealers have a direct relationship with clients. Soon as a manufacturer is feeling its oats, it will then try and do an end run on dealers and sell direct to clients. Witness Dell, HP, etc. business direct marketing models. Then, when the economy or sales go into the tank, they come back with their hat in their hands and want to get all nicey nicey with dealers again and make all kinds of offers and contracts. I don't want to even think about how many times I've been through these cycles. Lovely world? Hardly! But, there are opportunities for those who hold the client base.


EricV
03-11-2015, 03:03 PM   #218
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Yeah if I had to bet it would be using the already available 36MP sensor and priced about the same as the Nikon equivalent using a similar sensor, if we do the K3 vs 7100 comparison. D800's or 810s sell for about $3000 now, in 7 months they'll be oldish news and prices dropped as Nikon play catching up with the Jones's (Canon's) 50MP offerings, and so Pentax almost certainly won't be selling at a premium (or much of a premium) over the equivalent Nikon offering at that time, unless there are some serious knock your socks off features. Weather sealing, blah blah blah a given but that would garner <$200 premium for most people. So if I were a betting man I would say $2500 at launch, 36MP sensor, with price drops around Xmas as CaNIkony gear up their megapixel wars focused on the higher res newer sensors. Maybe Ricoh can garner a bit more of a premium than usual initially counting on the FF K legacy glass contingent having no better options, but that won't sustain them on an ongoing basis. Most people will want the new glass with faster and quieter AF, so the Pentax FF success will depend on how well they handle their updating of the FF glass line. Yeah there is a legacy glass owner's market but I wouldn't want to build my business model just on them.

03-11-2015, 03:53 PM   #219
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I wouldn't pay more for higher resolution. I have both 18 & 24 MP FF bodies and wouldn't care for more.
03-11-2015, 04:42 PM   #220
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QuoteOriginally posted by Erictator Quote
But, there are opportunities for those who hold the client base.
Hopefully, Eric, Sony can get over that conflict of interest. The sensor division is probably propping up the cameras division financially.

If Apple were to go with another supplier (as Samsung did - themselves) there will be exactly that humiliating situation you've described.
03-12-2015, 04:17 AM - 1 Like   #221
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Yes, there are several reasons - called D800, D800e and D810. The A7R... let's just say its lack of build quality is something we won't find in a Pentax flagship (the A7 series is the only one I'm aware of which has 'reinforced mounts' as 3rd-party accessories).

The price difference will mostly be due to smaller volume, and likely higher end technology combined.
03-12-2015, 04:37 AM   #222
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Dudes. It's a 645Z jr. It's the files. It's the images.

It's for Japan, not the West. I thought I read USA doesn't get ANY in the initial distribution, just Japan and EU.

I think that means they already know demand and they won't be able to make enough to meet it, just like 645Z.

We'll need to pay whatever it costs just to get one.

Last edited by monochrome; 03-13-2015 at 06:59 AM.
03-12-2015, 06:35 AM   #223
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QuoteOriginally posted by phoebus Quote
Why should a FF cost 2x the price of a leading APS-C?
The D810 more than costs twice as much as the D7200....
03-12-2015, 07:50 AM   #224
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Price does not equal quality. Pentax proves that every day. Its why I'm with them. They offer better quality at a better price. As long as they do that, I am in their pocket.

Would love to see a sub $2k FF... only for the reason that Pentax will yet again show up the big boys.

Love the fact that a $8.5k Pentax beats $27k+ camera's! And you can take it outside! :-D

Last edited by MyTZuS; 03-12-2015 at 08:12 AM.
03-12-2015, 07:56 AM   #225
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QuoteOriginally posted by phoebus Quote
Why should a FF cost 2x the price of a leading APS-C?
Because people are willing to pay 2x the price for a FF.
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