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03-01-2015, 09:28 PM   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
$2,500 plus body only and maybe $2,999 with the 24-105 kit lens
I figure that also and for that price there will be a quality product that will stand the test of competition and time.

03-02-2015, 04:45 AM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
That's pretty funny, Douglas! :-)
Thanks!
03-02-2015, 08:00 AM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
These are somewhat conflicting remarks. Ricoh should come out with a camera that does more than just offer K-mount lens owners FF images. So it does matter what they release. They need at least a prototype that offers the specs needed in such a format to have at least some imapct in the current market before they can announce the camera. The plastic mould is their attempt to say that they are at least working on it, perhaps to appease the supposed masses of Pentaxians craving for a FF camera. But they can only take announcements so far if they haven't gotten the product in its final stages of development...
Well I agree with you - but I have no inside knowledge. I think Adam meant, "The sooner they can get it out there the sooner this argument can stop."

From the other Forum, 2 days ago:

asahi man wrote:

Scheduled target is correct that's the area of market start. (In reference to October 15th Release Date)
Price is till today not fixed.
Best regards.

And, replying to his own post above:

They have plenty of time to figure the price out until then.

And regarding the construction and feature set (and the sensor - 24Mp versus 36Mp):

asahi man wrote:

The body quality is not in the class of Canon EOS 7 or Nikon 610,it will be same like K-3 and D810.

Sensor is unknown,I know that one prototype in April was build with the Sony 24 mp.


And i can tell you,the 24mp Sony is complete out of the game.

It was only an early fully project in a K-3 style body,but only with firmware out of the body and only the first study.

The current camera is a little Tank,very massive and strong,more than K-3.

Also we will see 2 more ff zooms till autumn.

Next year is a prime time for very very nice primes.....be sure

Next month i will see the new internal maps,can not give 100% informations...but for sure a big wink

I hope the 2.8 300 project is still active

Best regards
Thanks, you really

Last edited by monochrome; 03-02-2015 at 10:44 AM.
03-02-2015, 03:40 PM - 1 Like   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Thanks, you really
Me love you long time.

Well, this is all expected, with a 36+ Mp sensor of K-3/D810 calibre and a release by the year's end. It's the lenses that will indeed need focusing on to make use of such good sensor technology. So primes are fine, but a 300/2.8 will be out of reach for most - maybe a great way for Ricoh-Pentax to get into sports photography, etc.

03-03-2015, 01:42 AM - 1 Like   #110
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wow ... seems like they are really getting serious, very nice! time for saving even more money ;-)
03-03-2015, 10:53 AM   #111
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From all the information I've been accumulating and reading this full thread I think there are many that are close to the mark.

I think the #1 thing that Pentax will bring to the table that will be THE feature that will differentiate itself to other 35mm DSLR cameras will be the in body shake reduction. No one else has it! Sure, Sony has the A7 II with inbody SR, but the it's in a mirrorless, which there are many people who still prefer an optical viewfinder (myself included, the mini-TV's make me sick and give me a headache). Pentax will also be able to compound this feature with a massive first party lens lineup due to the legacy glass. I expect a "stabilization that works with hundred of Pentax full frame lenses" sales pitch, or something along those lines.

What I am I hopeful for? a 36mp camera, with a decent size/speed buffer that rivals my D800 (closer to D810 if not rivaling it) as well as a 7fps shutter speed.

At the end of the day I would love a Pentax version of the D810 with SR. I'm already saving my pennies, and depending on what I see when this Pentax finally comes out will dictate where my money goes...and I will have an additional FF camera by Christmas, either K or F mount. for you see my problem right now is that I use my D800 for 80% of my work. I got three major shoots in the coming 8 weeks and I badly need a CLA done on my D800, but I can't send it out due to the 6-8 week turn around time. So I'll keep using my D800 and have my K3 on my hip with FA limiteds read to go for when my D800 bogs out on me. When the time comes will I buy the Pentax? Or will I add the *D810 or *D750 to my stable?

Either way I still got a brilliant camera in my K3 which I will continue using with my excellent K mount glass. For studio work, going out in the bush, whatever. Sometimes hand holding a D800 with a 70-200 just isn't fun. for that, K3 and DA*50-135 is the solution!
03-03-2015, 11:28 AM - 1 Like   #112
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Alright, Pentax users are generally not the rich folks that buy stuffs without doing any price comparison. Those people usually buy CaNikons. Most people, discover the brand "Pentax", only after they do some extensive homework before they buy, since you seldom see ads from Pentax. In general, Pentax users are smart buyers who buy stuffs that has the 'best value', or "best bang for bucks" folks. That's a nice way to say "Pentaxians are generally cheap".

Anything above $2500 will only attract die-hard Pentax fans with cash to burn, which I don't think they will sell a lot. Simply because if they can spend this amount of money, they wouldn't wait so long for a Pentax FF, they already switched. If they did sell at this price, expect 90% of Pentaxians will begin whining and bashes the product and internet will explode (just kidding, the amount of Pentax users is so small, they barely affect the internet).

Anything between $2000-$2500, not going to works as well because if any Pentax users can shell this out will look at other cameras in the market at this price range as well (and their glass price). Nikon D750, Canon 5DIII, Sony A7R are the competitors, the Pentax FF will need to be very good to convince this segment of users to buy Pentax instead of those cameras, remember, Pentaxians are 'smart buyers'. If they are price at this range, I don't think the initial sale will be good, as most cheap Pentaxian will simply "wait for it to drop in price in a year or two".

So to be competitive and attractive and make a bang for the Pentax FF, they better price it like D610, 600D, A7II level, that is, sub $2000. But with features that K3 had, and better AF, and at least the relatively old 36MP from A7R. Pentax already using "old sensor" (like they always did, one generation behind others), so they are crazy if they think they can charge over $2000 for using 'old sensor'. This price range, I believe, is the sweat spot where Pentaxians will pay for MSRP price since they waited so long for FF in Pentax. They are willing to bite the bullet so they can use their old old FA lenses on this camera..... then realize their old lenses are not very good on this new camera, but they are stuck with this Pentax FF, so they have to shell out more money than the competitor on the lenses (which seem to be the case now with Pentax, their new lenses are no longer 'better value' than competitors).

Now Pentax FF is coming, how it is priced, will determine how successful it will be. Unlike the 645D launch, the competitors price are making 645D a really attractive option. In the FF case, they have a tough competition in pricing when you look at the FF landscape, for sure.
03-03-2015, 11:58 AM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by LFLee Quote
Alright, Pentax users are generally not the rich folks that buy stuffs without doing any price comparison. Those people usually buy CaNikons. Most people, discover the brand "Pentax", only after they do some extensive homework before they buy, since you seldom see ads from Pentax. In general, Pentax users are smart buyers who buy stuffs that has the 'best value', or "best bang for bucks" folks. That's a nice way to say "Pentaxians are generally cheap".
While I would probably agree this is mostly true for the "Pentaxians" hanging out on this forum, I think you miss the point that Ricoh does not give a rodents rear end about us or all the other 'old Pentaxians'. They are starting new, and if the "old Pentaxians" want to come along for the ride, fine. But be willing to pay the price for a world class camera brand and forget cheap. Those days are the past. The future is pricing and features that are directly competitive with the other big brands.
QuoteOriginally posted by LFLee Quote
Anything above $2500 will only attract die-hard Pentax fans with cash to burn, which I don't think they will sell a lot. Simply because if they can spend this amount of money, they wouldn't wait so long for a Pentax FF, they already switched. If they did sell at this price, expect 90% of Pentaxians will begin whining and bashes the product and internet will explode
While I agree that the internet will explode (at least the tiny portion occupied by Pentax Forums) I will again assert that "die-hard Pentaxians" are not the target market for the FF camera or indeed for Ricoh at all. They are developing a new customer base. We can move into that group if we want or whither on the vine. They have zero incentive to go cheap, they don't have huge production capacity they need to keep spinning, they don't have huge marketing budget that needs to see sales numbers to justify, they don't have huge ego that needs to be satisfied by having their camera on front page of magazines. They just need to make cameras and sell them at a profit.

03-03-2015, 12:12 PM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I will again assert that "die-hard Pentaxians" are not the target market for the FF camera or indeed for Ricoh at all.

QuoteQuote:
2. What kind of users will the new full-frame Pentax DSLR be aimed at? How will it stand out alongside the competition?
The first users are Pentax fans. Besides, it's important to get back Pentax users from competitors. Therefore, it's natural to make it have many strengths of Pentax. Besides, it's important to have attractive new features which other competitors don't have.


Read more at: 2015 Pentax Interview Transcript - CP+ 2015 | PentaxForums.com
that sounds like the complete opposite of what your saying....
03-03-2015, 12:28 PM   #115
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Don't confuse 'market speak' for reality. Of course they are not going to say Pentax fans are no longer a priority. And truth is they are being honest, Pentax Fans are a big priority for them, they just don't intend to be the 'cheap' brand anymore. And if cheap is the only reason you are a Pentaxian, then you are going to be left behind.

And "get back Pentax users from competitiors"? Where else are they going to get customers?

Perhaps I should amend my post to say "die-hard CHEAP Pentaxians" are not the target market. This is the company that just unveiled two lenses priced at $2k plus. That does not sound like they are focusing on cheap anymore.
03-03-2015, 12:44 PM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Don't confuse 'market speak' for reality. Of course they are not going to say Pentax fans are no longer a priority. And truth is they are being honest, Pentax Fans are a big priority for them, they just don't intend to be the 'cheap' brand anymore. And if cheap is the only reason you are a Pentaxian, then you are going to be left behind.

And "get back Pentax users from competitiors"? Where else are they going to get customers?

Perhaps I should amend my post to say "die-hard CHEAP Pentaxians" are not the target market. This is the company that just unveiled two lenses priced at $2k plus. That does not sound like they are focusing on cheap anymore.
I agree it won't be cheap, the whole 35mm system will not be cheap. I'm totally expecting a $2500-3000 price body, and have been since the day it was announced. I still don't think it will be anywhere close to $2000. I will be outright shocked if it's cheaper than $2300. I totally expect someone who plans to jump head first into this upgraded system to have to pay around $10,000 to be fully equipped with a trio of zooms, camera body, and a fast 50mm prime.

Oh another note, D750 is rumored to have a $400 price drop right away making it a $2100 CAD camera...
03-03-2015, 12:50 PM   #117
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
I agree it won't be cheap, the whole 35mm system will not be cheap. I'm totally expecting a $2500-3000 price body, and have been since the day it was announced. I still don't think it will be anywhere close to $2000. I will be outright shocked if it's cheaper than $2300. I totally expect someone who plans to jump head first into this upgraded system to have to pay around $10,000 to be fully equipped with a trio of zooms, camera body, and a fast 50mm prime.

Oh another note, D750 is rumored to have a $400 price drop right away making it a $2100 CAD camera...
They'll probably drop the price the day the Pentax FF comes out, hoping to cash in on the last few traitors.

It's a good thing we don't execute turn coats here on Pentax forum, we would have lost a good number of valuable members by now.

Tolerance has it's rewards.

Wait, I don't know how that Sigma DP2 got in my cupboard, it's Panoguy's fault, he sold it to me.

I'm innocent... honest...

Last edited by normhead; 03-03-2015 at 01:03 PM.
03-03-2015, 01:59 PM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
While I would probably agree this is mostly true for the "Pentaxians" hanging out on this forum, I think you miss the point that Ricoh does not give a rodents rear end about us or all the other 'old Pentaxians'. They are starting new, and if the "old Pentaxians" want to come along for the ride, fine. But be willing to pay the price for a world class camera brand and forget cheap. Those days are the past. The future is pricing and features that are directly competitive with the other big brands.

While I agree that the internet will explode (at least the tiny portion occupied by Pentax Forums) I will again assert that "die-hard Pentaxians" are not the target market for the FF camera or indeed for Ricoh at all. They are developing a new customer base. We can move into that group if we want or whither on the vine. They have zero incentive to go cheap, they don't have huge production capacity they need to keep spinning, they don't have huge marketing budget that needs to see sales numbers to justify, they don't have huge ego that needs to be satisfied by having their camera on front page of magazines. They just need to make cameras and sell them at a profit.
You might be right, but in the recent PF interview, they are (well, at least they said they are) happy that Pentaxians are excited about the FF announcement, and happy Pentaxians didn't said "it's too late" (not exact words, but something like that as I remembered). So, I believe they are targeting the long time Pentaxians (especially those with 'lots of FF glasses') with this FF. When your market share is so small and you are not targeting your "old Pentaxians", I don't think is a wise move. The early announcement of FF (almost a year early), is, I believe, a move that stop the 'jumping ship' crowd of "old Pentaxians" (they never announce anything this early before anything concrete).

I am just laying my observation, and hope they are listening.
03-03-2015, 02:14 PM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
They'll probably drop the price the day the Pentax FF comes out, hoping to cash in on the last few traitors.

It's a good thing we don't execute turn coats here on Pentax forum, we would have lost a good number of valuable members by now.

Tolerance has it's rewards.

Wait, I don't know how that Sigma DP2 got in my cupboard, it's Panoguy's fault, he sold it to me.

I'm innocent... honest...
Or how that EM1 found its way in my camera bag....

I still wanna "rebuy" that XT1 though.... it was a sexy camera if it was completely redundant to my K3....
03-03-2015, 03:16 PM   #120
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im still betting for a $2000 / $2300 body... maaaaybee.. $2500 .. but dont know.. I dont really understand the idea behind having a high price camera with such a small market share and wanting to grow ( i believe that Ricoh wants to grow the camera share isnt it?? ) .. They priced the 645Z several thousands lower than the other MFs.. They lowered the price of the K3 to almost $700 ( by the end of last year at ebay ) .. so i dont know but i kind of see this as if they are trying to grow their market share and not just aiming for a really small target.

But once again.. at this time we dont know nothing, just hoping that is the best for the brand.
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