Around. $1900.00 for the FF n the U.S.? What. do you think?

aleonx3 · 03-13-2015, 09:31 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

Pentax openly stated in their interviews at CP+ they seek to attract their current, loyal users and recently departed users who might still have Pentax lenses with the upcoming release.

FWIW, posters who have more actual knowledge of the longer term plan (the outline of where Ricoh wants to take Pentax) say Ricoh is serious and the strategy is developed. In my opinon we really shouldn't expect Pentax to look anything like Canon, Nikon or Sony. Something else - maybe unique - but not directly competitive with the high volume business model.

@Monochrome, good point; I am not saying it as a fact.... I am referring the perception in the eyes of those who are not Pentax conversant including reviewers as well. Just saying even if we have a product better than D81x, other people still think it is less.... just saying that perceived value is very different from reality.

I really like this statement... "shouldn't expect Pentax to look anything like Canon, Nikon or Sony. Something else - maybe unique - but not directly competitive with the high volume business model." And to us, this is more encouraging than anything else...we don't want to see Pentax as Canikony clones...

Last edited by aleonx3; 03-13-2015 at 09:53 AM.

**Pål Jensen** · 03-13-2015, 09:38 AM - **1 Like**

They'll also say AF sucks regardless of how fast it is....

VoiceOfReason · 03-13-2015, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

Pentax openly stated in their interviews at CP+ with the upcoming release they seek to attract their current, loyal users and recently departed users who might still have Pentax lenses.

FWIW, posters who have more actual knowledge of the longer term plan (the outline of where Ricoh wants to take Pentax) say Ricoh is serious and the strategy is developed. In my opinon we really shouldn't expect Pentax to look anything like Canon, Nikon or Sony. Something else - maybe unique - but not directly competitive with the high volume business model.

Bespoke setups? You can order it with one of a few different sensors, in a standard, IR+color, or full spectrum setup maybe? It would make things interesting to have those as options along with the standard setup. I'd even go the 3k price if it had a thing where I could switch on the full spectrum, normal, or IR as I wanted. I may even go 3200 for that.

**jatrax** · 03-13-2015, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by VoiceOfReason

Bespoke setups? You can order it with one of a few different sensors, in a standard, IR+color, or full spectrum setup maybe? It would make things interesting to have those as options along with the standard setup. I'd even go the 3k price if it had a thing where I could switch on the full spectrum, normal, or IR as I wanted. I may even go 3200 for that.

That would be interesting. Did Nikon not just announce a camera specifically for astrophotography? Thought I saw that some place. Filling a small niche with a dedicated camera. Ricoh seems to like custom colors and seems to have no issues with the logistics of that, maybe they can handle customized sensor options?

VoiceOfReason · 03-13-2015, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by jatrax

That would be interesting. Did Nikon not just announce a camera specifically for astrophotography? Thought I saw that some place. Filling a small niche with a dedicated camera. Ricoh seems to like custom colors and seems to have no issues with the logistics of that, maybe they can handle customized sensor options?

Yes, Nikon did, and Canon has had astrophotography cameras in the past. As of now the only full spectrum factory setup that I know of was for the 645D back a couple years ago.

**jatrax** · 03-13-2015, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by VoiceOfReason

Yes, Nikon did, and Canon has had astrophotography cameras in the past. As of now the only full spectrum factory setup that I know of was for the 645D back a couple years ago.

What is involved in converting to full spectrum or to IR? I see people getting old cameras converted to IR but I don't know what that entails. A new sensor? That seems unlikely.

**monochrome** · 03-13-2015, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by aleonx3

I am referring the perception in the eyes of those who are not Pentax conversant including reviewers as well. Just saying even if we have a product better than D81x, other people still think it is less.... just saying that perceived value is very different from reality.

I do believe there is a competent, multi-layer tactics set as well as a strategy. For instance, Kazunobu Saiki - General Manager of the Marketing Communication Department, in the Global Marketing Division of Ricoh Imaging.gave a direct interview to DPR at CP+. I've written before about that interview. I believe speaking directly and privately with a DPR reviewer is a necessary, 'on-offense' tactic to control the brand presentation and strongly influence the boundaries of future reviewer opinions. Sooner or later reviewers will evaluate Pentax cameras on their own merits rather than necessarily in the context of a Canon or Nikon (or Sony) offering.

VoiceOfReason · 03-13-2015, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by jatrax

What is involved in converting to full spectrum or to IR? I see people getting old cameras converted to IR but I don't know what that entails. A new sensor? That seems unlikely.

The only thing involved is changing the cut filter in front of the sensor. You stick a glass filter that allows whatever type of light you want to allow to pass in there. For full spectrum it is clear.

aleonx3 · 03-13-2015, 10:51 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by monochrome

I do believe there is a competent, multi-layer tactics set as well as a strategy. For instance, Kazunobu Saiki - General Manager of the Marketing Communication Department, in the Global Marketing Division of Ricoh Imaging.gave a direct interview to DPR at CP+. I've written before about that interview. I believe speaking directly and privately with a DPR reviewer is a necessary, 'on-offense' tactic to control the brand presentation and strongly influence the boundaries of future reviewer opinions. Sooner or later reviewers will evaluate Pentax cameras on their own merits rather than necessarily in the context of a Canon or Nikon (or Sony) offering.

I am (and probably many are as well) with you... and hope it will happen sooner than later.

Kunzite · 03-13-2015, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by jatrax

What is involved in converting to full spectrum or to IR? I see people getting old cameras converted to IR but I don't know what that entails. A new sensor? That seems unlikely.

Guts and money

The sensor has an IR-blocking filter on it; the conversion means the removal of that filter (or its replacement with clear optical glass). However, by doing that you will have issues with normal photography.
Leica M8 (IIRC) had a very weak IR filter, and they had to 'fix' that by providing screw-on-lens IR filters.

Fogel70 · 03-13-2015, 11:00 AM

They could do it like Sigma, put the IR-filter in front of the mirror to be easy to remove, instead of on the sensor.
This also have the benefit of better protection against dust on the sensor, and can even be done to improve weather sealing.

Sigma?s Easy IR; The SD14 D-SLR As An Easy Access IR Image-Maker | Shutterbug

But it might be difficult to fit a IR-filter that cover the whole FF image circle this way in a K-mount.

VoiceOfReason · 03-13-2015, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Guts and money

The sensor has an IR-blocking filter on it; the conversion means the removal of that filter (or its replacement with clear optical glass). However, by doing that you will have issues with normal photography.
Leica M8 (IIRC) had a very weak IR filter, and they had to 'fix' that by providing screw-on-lens IR filters.

Imagine them having the normal one that lifts out of place when wanting full spectrum, like some of the Sony cameras did in the early 2000s.

aleonx3 · 03-13-2015, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Guts and money

The sensor has an IR-blocking filter on it; the conversion means the removal of that filter (or its replacement with clear optical glass). However, by doing that you will have issues with normal photography.
Leica M8 (IIRC) had a very weak IR filter, and they had to 'fix' that by providing screw-on-lens IR filters.

@Kunzite, thanks for the info as I know nothing about IR; by your description of IR conversion, is this a permanent or reversible conversion? Just curious...

Barry Pearson · 03-13-2015, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by jatrax

What is involved in converting to full spectrum or to IR? I see people getting old cameras converted to IR but I don't know what that entails. A new sensor? That seems unlikely.

Originally posted by aleonx3

@Kunzite, thanks for the info as I know nothing about IR; by your description of IR conversion, is this a permanent or reversible conversion? Just curious...

I had my K-7 converted to IR by these people in the UK:

Advanced Camera Services Limited

aleonx3 · 03-13-2015, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by Barry Pearson

I had my K-7 converted to IR by these people in the UK:

Advanced Camera Services Limited

Sounds like a good use of the k-7, wish I still have my k-7...
Is there such a thing as "good candidate camera" for IR conversion?

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03-13-2015, 09:31 AM	#271
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	Originally posted by monochrome Pentax openly stated in their interviews at CP+ they seek to attract their current, loyal users and recently departed users who might still have Pentax lenses with the upcoming release. FWIW, posters who have more actual knowledge of the longer term plan (the outline of where Ricoh wants to take Pentax) say Ricoh is serious and the strategy is developed. In my opinon we really shouldn't expect Pentax to look anything like Canon, Nikon or Sony. Something else - maybe unique - but not directly competitive with the high volume business model. @Monochrome, good point; I am not saying it as a fact.... I am referring the perception in the eyes of those who are not Pentax conversant including reviewers as well. Just saying even if we have a product better than D81x, other people still think it is less.... just saying that perceived value is very different from reality. I really like this statement... "shouldn't expect Pentax to look anything like Canon, Nikon or Sony. Something else - maybe unique - but not directly competitive with the high volume business model." And to us, this is more encouraging than anything else...we don't want to see Pentax as Canikony clones... Last edited by aleonx3; 03-13-2015 at 09:53 AM.

03-13-2015, 09:38 AM - 1 Like	#272
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	They'll also say AF sucks regardless of how fast it is....

03-13-2015, 10:01 AM	#273
VoiceOfReason Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Mishawaka IN area Photos: Albums Posts: 6,124	Originally posted by monochrome Pentax openly stated in their interviews at CP+ with the upcoming release they seek to attract their current, loyal users and recently departed users who might still have Pentax lenses. FWIW, posters who have more actual knowledge of the longer term plan (the outline of where Ricoh wants to take Pentax) say Ricoh is serious and the strategy is developed. In my opinon we really shouldn't expect Pentax to look anything like Canon, Nikon or Sony. Something else - maybe unique - but not directly competitive with the high volume business model. Bespoke setups? You can order it with one of a few different sensors, in a standard, IR+color, or full spectrum setup maybe? It would make things interesting to have those as options along with the standard setup. I'd even go the 3k price if it had a thing where I could switch on the full spectrum, normal, or IR as I wanted. I may even go 3200 for that.

03-13-2015, 10:16 AM	#274
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by VoiceOfReason Bespoke setups? You can order it with one of a few different sensors, in a standard, IR+color, or full spectrum setup maybe? It would make things interesting to have those as options along with the standard setup. I'd even go the 3k price if it had a thing where I could switch on the full spectrum, normal, or IR as I wanted. I may even go 3200 for that. That would be interesting. Did Nikon not just announce a camera specifically for astrophotography? Thought I saw that some place. Filling a small niche with a dedicated camera. Ricoh seems to like custom colors and seems to have no issues with the logistics of that, maybe they can handle customized sensor options?

03-13-2015, 10:20 AM	#275
VoiceOfReason Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Mishawaka IN area Photos: Albums Posts: 6,124	Originally posted by jatrax That would be interesting. Did Nikon not just announce a camera specifically for astrophotography? Thought I saw that some place. Filling a small niche with a dedicated camera. Ricoh seems to like custom colors and seems to have no issues with the logistics of that, maybe they can handle customized sensor options? Yes, Nikon did, and Canon has had astrophotography cameras in the past. As of now the only full spectrum factory setup that I know of was for the 645D back a couple years ago.

03-13-2015, 10:27 AM	#276
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by VoiceOfReason Yes, Nikon did, and Canon has had astrophotography cameras in the past. As of now the only full spectrum factory setup that I know of was for the 645D back a couple years ago. What is involved in converting to full spectrum or to IR? I see people getting old cameras converted to IR but I don't know what that entails. A new sensor? That seems unlikely.

03-13-2015, 10:41 AM	#277
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by aleonx3 I am referring the perception in the eyes of those who are not Pentax conversant including reviewers as well. Just saying even if we have a product better than D81x, other people still think it is less.... just saying that perceived value is very different from reality. I do believe there is a competent, multi-layer tactics set as well as a strategy. For instance, Kazunobu Saiki - General Manager of the Marketing Communication Department, in the Global Marketing Division of Ricoh Imaging.gave a direct interview to DPR at CP+. I've written before about that interview. I believe speaking directly and privately with a DPR reviewer is a necessary, 'on-offense' tactic to control the brand presentation and strongly influence the boundaries of future reviewer opinions. Sooner or later reviewers will evaluate Pentax cameras on their own merits rather than necessarily in the context of a Canon or Nikon (or Sony) offering.

03-13-2015, 10:48 AM	#278
VoiceOfReason Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Mishawaka IN area Photos: Albums Posts: 6,124	Originally posted by jatrax What is involved in converting to full spectrum or to IR? I see people getting old cameras converted to IR but I don't know what that entails. A new sensor? That seems unlikely. The only thing involved is changing the cut filter in front of the sensor. You stick a glass filter that allows whatever type of light you want to allow to pass in there. For full spectrum it is clear.

03-13-2015, 10:51 AM - 1 Like	#279
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	Originally posted by monochrome I do believe there is a competent, multi-layer tactics set as well as a strategy. For instance, Kazunobu Saiki - General Manager of the Marketing Communication Department, in the Global Marketing Division of Ricoh Imaging.gave a direct interview to DPR at CP+. I've written before about that interview. I believe speaking directly and privately with a DPR reviewer is a necessary, 'on-offense' tactic to control the brand presentation and strongly influence the boundaries of future reviewer opinions. Sooner or later reviewers will evaluate Pentax cameras on their own merits rather than necessarily in the context of a Canon or Nikon (or Sony) offering. I am (and probably many are as well) with you... and hope it will happen sooner than later.

03-13-2015, 10:57 AM	#280
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by jatrax What is involved in converting to full spectrum or to IR? I see people getting old cameras converted to IR but I don't know what that entails. A new sensor? That seems unlikely. Guts and money The sensor has an IR-blocking filter on it; the conversion means the removal of that filter (or its replacement with clear optical glass). However, by doing that you will have issues with normal photography. Leica M8 (IIRC) had a very weak IR filter, and they had to 'fix' that by providing screw-on-lens IR filters.

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03-13-2015, 11:00 AM	#281
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	They could do it like Sigma, put the IR-filter in front of the mirror to be easy to remove, instead of on the sensor. This also have the benefit of better protection against dust on the sensor, and can even be done to improve weather sealing. Sigma?s Easy IR; The SD14 D-SLR As An Easy Access IR Image-Maker \| Shutterbug But it might be difficult to fit a IR-filter that cover the whole FF image circle this way in a K-mount.

03-13-2015, 11:00 AM	#282
VoiceOfReason Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Mishawaka IN area Photos: Albums Posts: 6,124	Originally posted by Kunzite Guts and money The sensor has an IR-blocking filter on it; the conversion means the removal of that filter (or its replacement with clear optical glass). However, by doing that you will have issues with normal photography. Leica M8 (IIRC) had a very weak IR filter, and they had to 'fix' that by providing screw-on-lens IR filters. Imagine them having the normal one that lifts out of place when wanting full spectrum, like some of the Sony cameras did in the early 2000s.

03-13-2015, 11:02 AM	#283
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	Originally posted by Kunzite Guts and money The sensor has an IR-blocking filter on it; the conversion means the removal of that filter (or its replacement with clear optical glass). However, by doing that you will have issues with normal photography. Leica M8 (IIRC) had a very weak IR filter, and they had to 'fix' that by providing screw-on-lens IR filters. @Kunzite, thanks for the info as I know nothing about IR; by your description of IR conversion, is this a permanent or reversible conversion? Just curious...

03-13-2015, 11:12 AM	#284
Barry Pearson Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Stockport Posts: 964	Originally posted by jatrax What is involved in converting to full spectrum or to IR? I see people getting old cameras converted to IR but I don't know what that entails. A new sensor? That seems unlikely. Originally posted by aleonx3 @Kunzite, thanks for the info as I know nothing about IR; by your description of IR conversion, is this a permanent or reversible conversion? Just curious... I had my K-7 converted to IR by these people in the UK: Advanced Camera Services Limited

03-13-2015, 11:19 AM	#285
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	Originally posted by Barry Pearson I had my K-7 converted to IR by these people in the UK: Advanced Camera Services Limited Sounds like a good use of the k-7, wish I still have my k-7... Is there such a thing as "good candidate camera" for IR conversion?