A recent full frame experience

stillshot2 · 03-20-2015, 03:32 PM

I was at a local camera store the other day just looking around, and played with a Sony a7, Nikon D610, and Nikon D750. Obviously, there were no Pentax. Being a K30 user, I was shocked how small the Sony was, and kinda liked how little it weighed. When I made my way over to the Nikons, they just seemed ridiculously enormous and heavy in comparison to the Sony, and even the K30 I am used to using. This experience really made me hope Pentax's new full frame is as small as they can make it. I think it could attract many Canikon users that want to upgrade from APS-C if it were K-3 sized as opposed to D750 sized. Thoughts?

nomadkng · 03-20-2015, 03:42 PM

I really doubt anyone is going to switch FF systems just because of size. That's a big investment. Features and performance are going to get Canikonians to switch, if any actually will, which I seriously doubt. Maybe some newer APS-C Canikonians will venture to Pentax FF, but not with this first release. Furthermore, if this new Pentax FF is anything less than a true Flagship K (think D810), you may actually see many Pentaxians jump ship. And you won't get that in a lightweight compact bundle.

Realistically, I don't even think sticking a FF sensor in a Q would pull others from the dark side. And personally, I think the K3 is too SMALL. I much preferred the K10....

stevebrot · 03-20-2015, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by stillshot2

Thoughts?

Yours is a common concern/desire. The Sony A7 is both compact and light due to its not being an SLR. The two Nikons are pretty representative of FF dSLRs. Size comparison photos of the Pentax FF mock-up would indicate a size in between the two and a bit larger over all than the K-3. That would be a significant step up in both size and weight from your K-30.

Steve

emergo · 03-20-2015, 04:07 PM - **1 Like**

Unless Pentax creates a mirrorless FF system, then we'll never see a Pentax FF body as small as the Sony A7. It physically couldn't happen. In fact, I don't see that it will be as small as the K3, although my hope is that it will be.

Personally, I would love it if they went mirrorless with their FF - and I don't mean another mirrorless K body. Create a whole new system from the ground up, lenses and all. Shrink that flange distance to as short as possible. Imagine how amazing a Pentax-engineered camera like that would be - so small and powerful and smartly laid out.

My fear is that Pentax will continue to lag behind the rest of the industry, content in "filling the gaps." They make superior cameras - I just wish they'd had created a system like the A7 first. Mirrorless is the future.

stillshot2 · 03-20-2015, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by nomadkng

I really doubt anyone is going to switch FF systems just because of size

I was talking about the Canikon APS-C user that has APS-C kit lenses who decides they wanna go full frame, then tries out a D610/D750 in stores like I did and go, oh crap this is too big and heavy and leans toward a smaller, yet traditional optical viewfinder Pentax FF...

I actually tried out a K10D and it wasn't too big and heavy (getting close though) but what killed it for me was that it was not comfortable to hold like my K30 is (and the fact that K10D had a huge back focus issue so I returned it, but that's a whole 'nother story).

I realize the Sony had an EFV, but it opened my eyes to smaller can be better, especially when carrying around a camera all day. You can always add a grip, but you can't just remove camera material without breaking it lol

Winder · 03-20-2015, 04:20 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by stillshot2

I was at a local camera store the other day just looking around, and played with a Sony a7, Nikon D610, and Nikon D750. Obviously, there were no Pentax. Being a K30 user, I was shocked how small the Sony was, and kinda liked how little it weighed. When I made my way over to the Nikons, they just seemed ridiculously enormous and heavy in comparison to the Sony, and even the K30 I am used to using. This experience really made me hope Pentax's new full frame is as small as they can make it. I think it could attract many Canikon users that want to upgrade from APS-C if it were K-3 sized as opposed to D750 sized. Thoughts?

One of the things I like about the Sony A7m2 is that I can put a small prime in it and have a really compact FF camera or I can throw a grip on it and the 70-200mm F/4 and have a camera that is just as big and balanced as a FF DSLR. Its an amazingly flexible system.

stevebrot · 03-20-2015, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by stillshot2

I realize the Sony had an EFV, but it opened my eyes to smaller can be better, especially when carrying around a camera all day.

Indeed. I have a stable of 35mm film SLRs, a couple of which are both smaller and lighter than the Sony A7. They are distinct pleasure in the hand and much easier to shoot with than almost any Pentax dSLR*.

Steve

* Can't say about the *ist-D and variants since I have never held one. All the others, I have.

Wolfeye · 03-20-2015, 05:07 PM

I've decided to go the opposite way for "small" in that I bought an Olympus OM-D E-M10 and 25mm lens. FF with a mirror just can't be petite.

stillshot2 · 03-20-2015, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by Winder

One of the things I like about the Sony A7m2 is that I can put a small prime in it

Do you use adapted manual focus Pentax primes?

phoned · 03-20-2015, 08:08 PM - **1 Like**

Small/light is fine as long as it has a grip that you can hold for a good amount of time. Even the K5 grip is just a bit too small to conformably hold for me, and I usually end up in a weird half lens/half camera holding position. Some of these smaller cameras have good 'thumb stops' and other design features so that's a plus.

Winder · 03-20-2015, 08:54 PM

Originally posted by stillshot2

Do you use adapted manual focus Pentax primes?

I do use the 31mm LTD with an adapter. It ends up being the same size as the 55mm F/1.8. I finally got a chance to play with the 35mm F/2 Zeiss Loxia and it makes for a very compact FF combination. The 35mm F/2.8 is also very small and a very under rated lens. Neither of them have the bokeh of the 31mm LTD.

yusuf · 03-20-2015, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by Winder

I do use the 31mm LTD with an adapter. It ends up being the same size as the 55mm F/1.8. I finally got a chance to play with the 35mm F/2 Zeiss Loxia and it makes for a very compact FF combination. The 35mm F/2.8 is also very small and a very under rated lens. Neither of them have the bokeh of the 31mm LTD.

Agree, 31 is hard to beat in bokeh department, even newer FE28/f2 is no match but good to see that lens scenario is improving at Sony end.

Originally posted by stillshot2

I was at a local camera store the other day just looking around, and played with a Sony a7, Nikon D610, and Nikon D750. Obviously, there were no Pentax. Being a K30 user, I was shocked how small the Sony was, and kinda liked how little it weighed. When I made my way over to the Nikons, they just seemed ridiculously enormous and heavy in comparison to the Sony, and even the K30 I am used to using. This experience really made me hope Pentax's new full frame is as small as they can make it. I think it could attract many Canikon users that want to upgrade from APS-C if it were K-3 sized as opposed to D750 sized. Thoughts?

I made switch purely based on the size but their the EVF is so awesome and eye focus just works like a charm for portraits, there is no going back to DSLR. AF is not as good as Canikons but then I see a lots of D800/mkIII for sale in local forum with reason often cited as moving to A7/a7r.

I really wish Pentax FF was mirrorless instead of coming up with another traditional DSLR where already a stiff competition and market is shrinking.

emergo · 03-20-2015, 09:16 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Wolfeye

I've decided to go the opposite way for "small" in that I bought an Olympus OM-D E-M10 and 25mm lens. FF with a mirror just can't be petite.

I also got an Oly OMD system (EM1). great ergonomics and it focuses like lightning. too many buttons, and the menus are poorly designed, but it's a great system.

too bad Pentax didn't join M4/3. they'd be amazing

Winder · 03-20-2015, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by yusuf

Agree, 31 is hard to beat in bokeh department, even newer FE28/f2 is no match but good to see that lens scenario is improving at Sony end.

I made switch purely based on the size but their the EVF is so awesome and eye focus just works like a charm for portraits, there is no going back to DSLR. AF is not as good as Canikons but then I see a lots of D800/mkIII for sale in local forum with reason often cited as moving to A7/a7r.

I really wish Pentax FF was mirrorless instead of coming up with another traditional DSLR where already a stiff competition and market is shrinking.

How do you like the 77mm LTD on the A7? I had opted for the Sigma 85mm over the 77mm LTD for the DSLR, but since adding the A7m2 I have been considering getting the 77mm LTD to use on both.

yusuf · 03-20-2015, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by Winder

How do you like the 77mm LTD on the A7? I had opted for the Sigma 85mm over the 77mm LTD for the DSLR, but since adding the A7m2 I have been considering getting the 77mm LTD to use on both.

I sold it very recently as it's too close in focal length with FE55. It's fine otherwise.

03-20-2015, 03:32 PM	#1
stillshot2 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Phoenix, AZ Photos: Albums Posts: 1,070	A recent full frame experience I was at a local camera store the other day just looking around, and played with a Sony a7, Nikon D610, and Nikon D750. Obviously, there were no Pentax. Being a K30 user, I was shocked how small the Sony was, and kinda liked how little it weighed. When I made my way over to the Nikons, they just seemed ridiculously enormous and heavy in comparison to the Sony, and even the K30 I am used to using. This experience really made me hope Pentax's new full frame is as small as they can make it. I think it could attract many Canikon users that want to upgrade from APS-C if it were K-3 sized as opposed to D750 sized. Thoughts?

03-20-2015, 04:20 PM	#5
stillshot2 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Phoenix, AZ Photos: Albums Posts: 1,070 Original Poster	Originally posted by nomadkng I really doubt anyone is going to switch FF systems just because of size I was talking about the Canikon APS-C user that has APS-C kit lenses who decides they wanna go full frame, then tries out a D610/D750 in stores like I did and go, oh crap this is too big and heavy and leans toward a smaller, yet traditional optical viewfinder Pentax FF... I actually tried out a K10D and it wasn't too big and heavy (getting close though) but what killed it for me was that it was not comfortable to hold like my K30 is (and the fact that K10D had a huge back focus issue so I returned it, but that's a whole 'nother story). I realize the Sony had an EFV, but it opened my eyes to smaller can be better, especially when carrying around a camera all day. You can always add a grip, but you can't just remove camera material without breaking it lol Last edited by stillshot2; 03-20-2015 at 04:29 PM.

03-20-2015, 09:04 PM	#12
yusuf Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Palo Alto, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,497	Originally posted by Winder I do use the 31mm LTD with an adapter. It ends up being the same size as the 55mm F/1.8. I finally got a chance to play with the 35mm F/2 Zeiss Loxia and it makes for a very compact FF combination. The 35mm F/2.8 is also very small and a very under rated lens. Neither of them have the bokeh of the 31mm LTD. Agree, 31 is hard to beat in bokeh department, even newer FE28/f2 is no match but good to see that lens scenario is improving at Sony end. Originally posted by stillshot2 I was at a local camera store the other day just looking around, and played with a Sony a7, Nikon D610, and Nikon D750. Obviously, there were no Pentax. Being a K30 user, I was shocked how small the Sony was, and kinda liked how little it weighed. When I made my way over to the Nikons, they just seemed ridiculously enormous and heavy in comparison to the Sony, and even the K30 I am used to using. This experience really made me hope Pentax's new full frame is as small as they can make it. I think it could attract many Canikon users that want to upgrade from APS-C if it were K-3 sized as opposed to D750 sized. Thoughts? I made switch purely based on the size but their the EVF is so awesome and eye focus just works like a charm for portraits, there is no going back to DSLR. AF is not as good as Canikons but then I see a lots of D800/mkIII for sale in local forum with reason often cited as moving to A7/a7r. I really wish Pentax FF was mirrorless instead of coming up with another traditional DSLR where already a stiff competition and market is shrinking. Last edited by yusuf; 03-20-2015 at 09:16 PM.

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03-20-2015, 03:42 PM	#2
nomadkng Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,448	I really doubt anyone is going to switch FF systems just because of size. That's a big investment. Features and performance are going to get Canikonians to switch, if any actually will, which I seriously doubt. Maybe some newer APS-C Canikonians will venture to Pentax FF, but not with this first release. Furthermore, if this new Pentax FF is anything less than a true Flagship K (think D810), you may actually see many Pentaxians jump ship. And you won't get that in a lightweight compact bundle. Realistically, I don't even think sticking a FF sensor in a Q would pull others from the dark side. And personally, I think the K3 is too SMALL. I much preferred the K10....

03-20-2015, 03:47 PM	#3
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by stillshot2 Thoughts? Yours is a common concern/desire. The Sony A7 is both compact and light due to its not being an SLR. The two Nikons are pretty representative of FF dSLRs. Size comparison photos of the Pentax FF mock-up would indicate a size in between the two and a bit larger over all than the K-3. That would be a significant step up in both size and weight from your K-30. Steve

03-20-2015, 04:07 PM - 1 Like	#4
emergo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Coloroado Photos: Gallery Posts: 271	Unless Pentax creates a mirrorless FF system, then we'll never see a Pentax FF body as small as the Sony A7. It physically couldn't happen. In fact, I don't see that it will be as small as the K3, although my hope is that it will be. Personally, I would love it if they went mirrorless with their FF - and I don't mean another mirrorless K body. Create a whole new system from the ground up, lenses and all. Shrink that flange distance to as short as possible. Imagine how amazing a Pentax-engineered camera like that would be - so small and powerful and smartly laid out. My fear is that Pentax will continue to lag behind the rest of the industry, content in "filling the gaps." They make superior cameras - I just wish they'd had created a system like the A7 first. Mirrorless is the future.

03-20-2015, 04:20 PM - 1 Like	#6
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by stillshot2 I was at a local camera store the other day just looking around, and played with a Sony a7, Nikon D610, and Nikon D750. Obviously, there were no Pentax. Being a K30 user, I was shocked how small the Sony was, and kinda liked how little it weighed. When I made my way over to the Nikons, they just seemed ridiculously enormous and heavy in comparison to the Sony, and even the K30 I am used to using. This experience really made me hope Pentax's new full frame is as small as they can make it. I think it could attract many Canikon users that want to upgrade from APS-C if it were K-3 sized as opposed to D750 sized. Thoughts? One of the things I like about the Sony A7m2 is that I can put a small prime in it and have a really compact FF camera or I can throw a grip on it and the 70-200mm F/4 and have a camera that is just as big and balanced as a FF DSLR. Its an amazingly flexible system.

03-20-2015, 04:57 PM	#7
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by stillshot2 I realize the Sony had an EFV, but it opened my eyes to smaller can be better, especially when carrying around a camera all day. Indeed. I have a stable of 35mm film SLRs, a couple of which are both smaller and lighter than the Sony A7. They are distinct pleasure in the hand and much easier to shoot with than almost any Pentax dSLR. Steve Can't say about the *ist-D and variants since I have never held one. All the others, I have.

03-20-2015, 05:07 PM	#8
Wolfeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Photos: Albums Posts: 782	I've decided to go the opposite way for "small" in that I bought an Olympus OM-D E-M10 and 25mm lens. FF with a mirror just can't be petite.

03-20-2015, 07:52 PM	#9
stillshot2 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Phoenix, AZ Photos: Albums Posts: 1,070 Original Poster	Originally posted by Winder One of the things I like about the Sony A7m2 is that I can put a small prime in it Do you use adapted manual focus Pentax primes?

03-20-2015, 08:08 PM - 1 Like	#10
phoned Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 40	Small/light is fine as long as it has a grip that you can hold for a good amount of time. Even the K5 grip is just a bit too small to conformably hold for me, and I usually end up in a weird half lens/half camera holding position. Some of these smaller cameras have good 'thumb stops' and other design features so that's a plus.

03-20-2015, 08:54 PM	#11
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by stillshot2 Do you use adapted manual focus Pentax primes? I do use the 31mm LTD with an adapter. It ends up being the same size as the 55mm F/1.8. I finally got a chance to play with the 35mm F/2 Zeiss Loxia and it makes for a very compact FF combination. The 35mm F/2.8 is also very small and a very under rated lens. Neither of them have the bokeh of the 31mm LTD.

03-20-2015, 09:16 PM - 1 Like	#13
emergo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Coloroado Photos: Gallery Posts: 271	Originally posted by Wolfeye I've decided to go the opposite way for "small" in that I bought an Olympus OM-D E-M10 and 25mm lens. FF with a mirror just can't be petite. I also got an Oly OMD system (EM1). great ergonomics and it focuses like lightning. too many buttons, and the menus are poorly designed, but it's a great system. too bad Pentax didn't join M4/3. they'd be amazing

03-20-2015, 09:23 PM	#14
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by yusuf Agree, 31 is hard to beat in bokeh department, even newer FE28/f2 is no match but good to see that lens scenario is improving at Sony end. I made switch purely based on the size but their the EVF is so awesome and eye focus just works like a charm for portraits, there is no going back to DSLR. AF is not as good as Canikons but then I see a lots of D800/mkIII for sale in local forum with reason often cited as moving to A7/a7r. I really wish Pentax FF was mirrorless instead of coming up with another traditional DSLR where already a stiff competition and market is shrinking. How do you like the 77mm LTD on the A7? I had opted for the Sigma 85mm over the 77mm LTD for the DSLR, but since adding the A7m2 I have been considering getting the 77mm LTD to use on both.

03-20-2015, 09:36 PM	#15
yusuf Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Palo Alto, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,497	Originally posted by Winder How do you like the 77mm LTD on the A7? I had opted for the Sigma 85mm over the 77mm LTD for the DSLR, but since adding the A7m2 I have been considering getting the 77mm LTD to use on both. I sold it very recently as it's too close in focal length with FE55. It's fine otherwise.