24 or 36 or 50 for new FF

**BarryE** · 03-23-2015, 07:07 AM

Apologies for asking another FF question, but keeping the question, and hopefully the answers, to this question:

What mp count will the new FF sensor likely be ?

I appreciate the mp race is a big issue for many, but I'm considering an upgrade path from my K-3, and getting an improved SNR and DN, with a small mp improvement will for me be a winner.

# I assume it will not be 24 as then the cropping facility will not offer the K3ers much.
# I hope it will not be 50, as the SNR and DN will likely to be poor, and anyway the 645Z takes this space (plus lots, I appreciate)
# 36 competes with the D810 and if Ricoh get the price right there will not be Ricoh-are-in-catch-up complaints, but rather Ricoh have got the spec V price bang on.

So what will it likely be ? Of course it could well be another value ...

reeftool · 03-23-2015, 07:29 AM - **1 Like**

Whatever sensor they choose, there will be a slew of unhappy shooters. I would prefer something like the sensor in the D4s but the peepers who spend their days looking at 100% crops on 32 inch monitors will probably ignite a firestorm if they don't build something along the lines of the D810. My K5 is going on 5 years and a new body isn't far off. I probably won't go FF but if the new FF camera is relatively compact and lightweight, say about the K10D size, then I would be very interested.

It's also in Ricoh's best interests to get this camera to market sooner rather than later because a lot of people have put new camera and lens purchases on hold waiting to see what this camera is going to be.

zmohie · 03-23-2015, 07:33 AM

Regarding the reports about the capabilties of the new dfa lenses I think the new sony sensor 50mp will be pentax choice. i hope that!!!!

Gimbal · 03-23-2015, 07:40 AM

36 is ok, but Nikon, Canon and Sony will probably offer 50 at that time.

zeds · 03-23-2015, 07:50 AM

Originally posted by zmohie

Regarding the reports about the capabilties of the new dfa lenses I think the new sony sensor 50mp will be pentax choice. i hope that!!!!

i think. it's about your styles on photography and for what your photo.
because every camera have different styles..hehehe

**jatrax** · 03-23-2015, 08:12 AM

36mp, they already said it will be more then 24mp. And 50mp would, in many people's minds, compete with the 645z. No point to it. Why do a 50mp FF when you already have a better offer.

And they are limited to what sensors they can buy. Which at this time is 24mp or 36mp. So it will be 36mp.

**BarryE** · 03-23-2015, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by jatrax

36mp, they already said it will be more then 24mp. And 50mp would, in many people's minds, compete with the 645z. No point to it. Why do a 50mp FF when you already have a better offer.

And they are limited to what sensors they can buy. Which at this time is 24mp or 36mp. So it will be 36mp.

That's what I had guessed ...So 36 then the favourite for these reasons ? 36 is my hope as it seems a good balance/compromise - probably will still be noiser than ideal, but good for most uses.

max_pyne · 03-23-2015, 08:24 AM

24 so we can compare it directly with the K-3 :-)

Clavius · 03-23-2015, 08:36 AM

Originally posted by BarryE

# I assume it will not be 24 as then the cropping facility will not offer the K3ers much.

Wouldn't people with a K3 just shoot their K3 instead of the crop mode of ANY FF camera?

**BarryE** · 03-23-2015, 09:11 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

Wouldn't people with a K3 just shoot their K3 instead of the crop mode of ANY FF camera?

Guess would have a better SNR and DR, though, and would have a FF with it's "advantages" when using FF lenses. Unlikely, I appreciate.

---------- Post added 03-23-15 at 04:39 PM ----------

Just calculated the pixel sizes for K-3 D8100 and 645Z (24, 36, 50 mp approx).

Approx figures:
K-3 - 0.0039 mm
D810 - 0.0049 mm
645Z - 0.0053 mm

So a 24mp to 36mp sensor gain brings a greater increase in photon gathering capacity for a 36mp FF Pentax (=D810 size), than is gained from a D810 to 645Z. I found this interesting when considering how a FF 36mp might perform. I used a 645Z briefly at the weekend and was impressed by the improved quality of the noise. Looking at these approx figures, a 36mp Pentax might be a noticeable improvement on the K-3 in this area.

Of course I may have got my maths wrong ...

Na Horuk · 03-23-2015, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by reeftool

Whatever sensor they choose, there will be a slew of unhappy shooters.

There, that is basically what Pentax is all about. Even if they make a 1Dx for $800, someone would still complain.
I personally would like something around 20-28MP, but already some people are claiming that 36MP is still not enough. Even 50MP is just a "compromise" for them. Then you have the other extreme, who want a 12MP nocturnal beast like the Sony A7s. I just hope Pentax doesn't try to please too many people and mess it all up. Better to do one thing really well than to try making various models, functions, that ultimately all fall short individually. So I'll say I don't really care about MP, it will definitely have enough for my use. And the files will probably be too big for my current storage anyway.. and that is part of why I will wait a long while before considering FF

biz-engineer · 03-23-2015, 10:56 AM

So, if I was Pentax and if the 50Mpixel sensor was available, I'd use a native 50Mpixel sensor, no AA filter, and decline the FF camera into 3 models:
- Model A: $3500, 50Mpixels, 24Mpixels in crop mode (same as K-3)
- Model B: $2400, 36Mpixels, 16Mpixels in crop mode (same as K-5IIs)
- Model C: $1600, 24Mpixels, 12Mpixels in crop mode (same as Kx)

Same body, same hardware, same software, but different firmware for each version.

Gimbal · 03-23-2015, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

Wouldn't people with a K3 just shoot their K3 instead of the crop mode of ANY FF camera?

Because it makes much more sense to buy a new camera for lots of money and then use the old one.

btnapa · 03-23-2015, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by BarryE

Apologies for asking another FF question, but keeping the question, and hopefully the answers, to this question:

What mp count will the new FF sensor likely be ?

I appreciate the mp race is a big issue for many, but I'm considering an upgrade path from my K-3, and getting an improved SNR and DN, with a small mp improvement will for me be a winner.

# I assume it will not be 24 as then the cropping facility will not offer the K3ers much.
# I hope it will not be 50, as the SNR and DN will likely to be poor, and anyway the 645Z takes this space (plus lots, I appreciate)
# 36 competes with the D810 and if Ricoh get the price right there will not be Ricoh-are-in-catch-up complaints, but rather Ricoh have got the spec V price bang on.

So what will it likely be ? Of course it could well be another value ...

I think Pentax is going to go with a 36mp FF as an initial release. 24mp is too little too late. Sony may not make the 50mp sensor available to Pentax right away as they need to milk it themselves for a while. Besides even if they make it available, Pentax may not want to use it because it may canibalize the 645Z action.

As much as I want a FF Pentax DSLR, my problem is lack of lenses for the platform. Yes they are releasing long zooms for it. But there are no serious short lenses available or even planned for this platform. Perhaps Pentax is planning to surprise everyone with the release of an FF body and a bunch of short primes and other pro class zooms at the same time. The three amigos can save the day but I do not know for how long.

**Ash** · 03-23-2015, 04:39 PM

THere will be a variety of DFA lenses to be announced that will fill in the gaps and modernise the older FA lenses, which IMO do need the facelift.
Quick shift, better coatings and IQ, and strong yet lightweight designs are all needed (and are being developed) in these new lenses. So for those looking to go FF but are concerned about lens deficiency, I would encourage you to look into the future and enjoy the FF experience when it comes out. After all, who wouldn't want a FF camera to pair up with the FA Ltds and be able to use them with autofocus?

03-23-2015, 07:07 AM	#1
BarryE Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 1,654	24 or 36 or 50 for new FF Apologies for asking another FF question, but keeping the question, and hopefully the answers, to this question: What mp count will the new FF sensor likely be ? I appreciate the mp race is a big issue for many, but I'm considering an upgrade path from my K-3, and getting an improved SNR and DN, with a small mp improvement will for me be a winner. # I assume it will not be 24 as then the cropping facility will not offer the K3ers much. # I hope it will not be 50, as the SNR and DN will likely to be poor, and anyway the 645Z takes this space (plus lots, I appreciate) # 36 competes with the D810 and if Ricoh get the price right there will not be Ricoh-are-in-catch-up complaints, but rather Ricoh have got the spec V price bang on. So what will it likely be ? Of course it could well be another value ...

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03-23-2015, 07:29 AM - 1 Like	#2
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,555	Whatever sensor they choose, there will be a slew of unhappy shooters. I would prefer something like the sensor in the D4s but the peepers who spend their days looking at 100% crops on 32 inch monitors will probably ignite a firestorm if they don't build something along the lines of the D810. My K5 is going on 5 years and a new body isn't far off. I probably won't go FF but if the new FF camera is relatively compact and lightweight, say about the K10D size, then I would be very interested. It's also in Ricoh's best interests to get this camera to market sooner rather than later because a lot of people have put new camera and lens purchases on hold waiting to see what this camera is going to be.

03-23-2015, 07:33 AM	#3
zmohie Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: egypt Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 435	Regarding the reports about the capabilties of the new dfa lenses I think the new sony sensor 50mp will be pentax choice. i hope that!!!!

03-23-2015, 07:40 AM	#4
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	36 is ok, but Nikon, Canon and Sony will probably offer 50 at that time.

03-23-2015, 07:50 AM	#5
zeds New Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 21	Originally posted by zmohie Regarding the reports about the capabilties of the new dfa lenses I think the new sony sensor 50mp will be pentax choice. i hope that!!!! i think. it's about your styles on photography and for what your photo. because every camera have different styles..hehehe

03-23-2015, 08:12 AM	#6
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	36mp, they already said it will be more then 24mp. And 50mp would, in many people's minds, compete with the 645z. No point to it. Why do a 50mp FF when you already have a better offer. And they are limited to what sensors they can buy. Which at this time is 24mp or 36mp. So it will be 36mp.

03-23-2015, 08:21 AM	#7
BarryE Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 1,654 Original Poster	Originally posted by jatrax 36mp, they already said it will be more then 24mp. And 50mp would, in many people's minds, compete with the 645z. No point to it. Why do a 50mp FF when you already have a better offer. And they are limited to what sensors they can buy. Which at this time is 24mp or 36mp. So it will be 36mp. That's what I had guessed ...So 36 then the favourite for these reasons ? 36 is my hope as it seems a good balance/compromise - probably will still be noiser than ideal, but good for most uses.

03-23-2015, 08:24 AM	#8
max_pyne Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: zurich Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 409	24 so we can compare it directly with the K-3 :-)

03-23-2015, 08:36 AM	#9
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by BarryE # I assume it will not be 24 as then the cropping facility will not offer the K3ers much. Wouldn't people with a K3 just shoot their K3 instead of the crop mode of ANY FF camera?

03-23-2015, 09:11 AM	#10
BarryE Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 1,654 Original Poster	Originally posted by Clavius Wouldn't people with a K3 just shoot their K3 instead of the crop mode of ANY FF camera? Guess would have a better SNR and DR, though, and would have a FF with it's "advantages" when using FF lenses. Unlikely, I appreciate. ---------- Post added 03-23-15 at 04:39 PM ---------- Just calculated the pixel sizes for K-3 D8100 and 645Z (24, 36, 50 mp approx). Approx figures: K-3 - 0.0039 mm D810 - 0.0049 mm 645Z - 0.0053 mm So a 24mp to 36mp sensor gain brings a greater increase in photon gathering capacity for a 36mp FF Pentax (=D810 size), than is gained from a D810 to 645Z. I found this interesting when considering how a FF 36mp might perform. I used a 645Z briefly at the weekend and was impressed by the improved quality of the noise. Looking at these approx figures, a 36mp Pentax might be a noticeable improvement on the K-3 in this area. Of course I may have got my maths wrong ...

03-23-2015, 10:03 AM	#11
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Originally posted by reeftool Whatever sensor they choose, there will be a slew of unhappy shooters. There, that is basically what Pentax is all about. Even if they make a 1Dx for $800, someone would still complain. I personally would like something around 20-28MP, but already some people are claiming that 36MP is still not enough. Even 50MP is just a "compromise" for them. Then you have the other extreme, who want a 12MP nocturnal beast like the Sony A7s. I just hope Pentax doesn't try to please too many people and mess it all up. Better to do one thing really well than to try making various models, functions, that ultimately all fall short individually. So I'll say I don't really care about MP, it will definitely have enough for my use. And the files will probably be too big for my current storage anyway.. and that is part of why I will wait a long while before considering FF

03-23-2015, 10:56 AM	#12
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,246	So, if I was Pentax and if the 50Mpixel sensor was available, I'd use a native 50Mpixel sensor, no AA filter, and decline the FF camera into 3 models: - Model A: $3500, 50Mpixels, 24Mpixels in crop mode (same as K-3) - Model B: $2400, 36Mpixels, 16Mpixels in crop mode (same as K-5IIs) - Model C: $1600, 24Mpixels, 12Mpixels in crop mode (same as Kx) Same body, same hardware, same software, but different firmware for each version.

03-23-2015, 11:07 AM	#13
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	Originally posted by Clavius Wouldn't people with a K3 just shoot their K3 instead of the crop mode of ANY FF camera? Because it makes much more sense to buy a new camera for lots of money and then use the old one.

03-23-2015, 04:16 PM	#14
btnapa Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,621	Originally posted by BarryE Apologies for asking another FF question, but keeping the question, and hopefully the answers, to this question: What mp count will the new FF sensor likely be ? I appreciate the mp race is a big issue for many, but I'm considering an upgrade path from my K-3, and getting an improved SNR and DN, with a small mp improvement will for me be a winner. # I assume it will not be 24 as then the cropping facility will not offer the K3ers much. # I hope it will not be 50, as the SNR and DN will likely to be poor, and anyway the 645Z takes this space (plus lots, I appreciate) # 36 competes with the D810 and if Ricoh get the price right there will not be Ricoh-are-in-catch-up complaints, but rather Ricoh have got the spec V price bang on. So what will it likely be ? Of course it could well be another value ... I think Pentax is going to go with a 36mp FF as an initial release. 24mp is too little too late. Sony may not make the 50mp sensor available to Pentax right away as they need to milk it themselves for a while. Besides even if they make it available, Pentax may not want to use it because it may canibalize the 645Z action. As much as I want a FF Pentax DSLR, my problem is lack of lenses for the platform. Yes they are releasing long zooms for it. But there are no serious short lenses available or even planned for this platform. Perhaps Pentax is planning to surprise everyone with the release of an FF body and a bunch of short primes and other pro class zooms at the same time. The three amigos can save the day but I do not know for how long.

03-23-2015, 04:39 PM	#15
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	THere will be a variety of DFA lenses to be announced that will fill in the gaps and modernise the older FA lenses, which IMO do need the facelift. Quick shift, better coatings and IQ, and strong yet lightweight designs are all needed (and are being developed) in these new lenses. So for those looking to go FF but are concerned about lens deficiency, I would encourage you to look into the future and enjoy the FF experience when it comes out. After all, who wouldn't want a FF camera to pair up with the FA Ltds and be able to use them with autofocus?