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04-04-2015, 02:43 PM   #76
osv
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that's it.

when it's set to "on", the evf shows the same exposure that the photo has.

if your evf was dark, the picture would have been severely underexposed.

the only exceptions might be if you had a studio flash or an incompatible flash, that didn't communicate with the camera.

what flash system were you using?

04-04-2015, 03:08 PM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
that's it.

when it's set to "on", the evf shows the same exposure that the photo has.

if your evf was dark, the picture would have been severely underexposed.

the only exceptions might be if you had a studio flash or an incompatible flash, that didn't communicate with the camera.

what flash system were you using?
As I have said in my earlier post , the Modelling lights were on with 2 x key lights and the illuminance of the globes were cranked up quite high but it was still difficult to actually see the model to compose / focus and take a shot
with the settings you have described in your PM. Turning on everything on your LCD Liveview display doesn't change the behaviour of the EVF.
The pictures were perfectly exposed. The exposure settings were predetermined for studion
04-04-2015, 03:41 PM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
although he usually doesn't tell folks who he is ignoring, he just does it.
Not anymore
04-04-2015, 03:54 PM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by disco_owner Quote
As I have said in my earlier post , the Modelling lights were on with 2 x key lights and the illuminance of the globes were cranked up quite high
but what flash system was used?

was it studio flash, that was unable to communicate with the camera? how was the flash triggered?

QuoteOriginally posted by disco_owner Quote
but it was still difficult to actually see the model to compose / focus and take a shot
since you already had "setting effect ON", your evf was dark because what the camera saw, without a flash, was a shot that was severely underexposed.

it sounds like you manually preset the aperture/shutter for the flash exposure, and the modeling lights were nowhere near as bright as the actual flash was.

if the modeling lights were as bright as the flash, there would have been no need for a flash.

1)what flash system was used(clearly not sony?)
2)how was it triggered
3)what were the aperture/shutter speeds

interesting problem.

04-04-2015, 04:00 PM   #80
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LOL at the guy who said FF will be at D810 price.

no way.
04-04-2015, 04:35 PM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by LFLee Quote
LOL at the guy who said FF will be at D810 price.

no way.
Why? And do you think more, less? (BTW one thing I have not weighed in on much is the price because so much about the body determines that. My guess has always been a nice wide range: $1800 - $3500 initial MSRP)
04-04-2015, 06:05 PM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by disco_owner Quote
If you're referring to Live View Display - Setting Effect ON , That was in the 'ON' position the entire time. I have sent you a PM. Im always willing to learn from others. :-)
the fix for this is "setting effect OFF", because it's studio lighting that doesn't communicate with the camera.

A7R with Studio Lighting: Sony Alpha/NEX E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
04-04-2015, 07:02 PM   #83
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I love Pentax and don't apologize for it .


Sony A7, Sony 10-18mm f4:





Sony NEX-7, 10-18mm f4:






Sony A7, Pentax DFA 50mm f2.8 Macro:





Last edited by Blue; 04-05-2015 at 07:33 PM.
04-04-2015, 09:02 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
the fix for this is "setting effect OFF", because it's studio lighting that doesn't communicate with the camera.

A7R with Studio Lighting: Sony Alpha/NEX E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
osv , in one post you stated earlier that I should have the Liveview setting effect set to "ON" position because I claimed i couldn't see the model with modelling light cranked up when aperture was stopped down, then upon further research in another post you state it should be switched to OFF position ??? You've given me the impression that you have a really strong grasp of the interworking of the A7/A7R camera platform !!! But I doubt it when above you state "studio lighting doesn't communicate with the camera" ???
04-05-2015, 05:36 AM   #85
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If only Fuji would bring out a ff system incorporating their evf \ovf system then everyone subscribing to this thread would be happy!!

I think that if one is considering an upgrade to a ff system, size and weight play an important part in the decision making process.

For me personally I don't want to be plagued with chronic musculo skeletal issues regarding my neck and rotator cuff.
I also don't want to be paying through the nose for excess baggage on flights because my hand luggage is full of bulky ff equipment.

The relatively compact Sony system had such an appeal in this regard for me. I would never have jumped to the Nikon d800e for the reasons above.
04-05-2015, 08:19 AM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by disco_owner Quote
osv , in one post you stated earlier that I should have the Liveview setting effect set to "ON" position because I claimed i couldn't see the model with modelling light cranked up when aperture was stopped down, then upon further research in another post you state it should be switched to OFF position ??? You've given me the impression that you have a really strong grasp of the interworking of the A7/A7R camera platform !!! But I doubt it when above you state "studio lighting doesn't communicate with the camera" ???
all of that is true, sorry but but there is a learning curve when it comes to studio flashes, and i'm no studio flash expert, lol.

"doesn't communicate" means no ettl type of functionality, so the camera has no way of knowing how much light those studio flashes are putting out, in fact it may not even know that they are there... if you look at the flash trigger being used, it probably only has a center pin connection?

that's why primitive studio flash systems are the one situation where "setting effect OFF" might be useful.

by comparison, when i put my sony f60m flash on the a7r, i leave the evf in "setting effect ON" mode, because the flash tells the camera how much light it's putting out, and the evf compensates for that.

with sony/f60m i also have full hss capability with manual flash power settings, which i could never do with my pentax flash system.

hope this helps, please keep us posted on how it goes.
04-05-2015, 11:48 AM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
all of that is true, sorry but but there is a learning curve when it comes to studio flashes, and i'm no studio flash expert, lol.

"doesn't communicate" means no ettl type of functionality, so the camera has no way of knowing how much light those studio flashes are putting out, in fact it may not even know that they are there... if you look at the flash trigger being used, it probably only has a center pin connection?

that's why primitive studio flash systems are the one situation where "setting effect OFF" might be useful.

by comparison, when i put my sony f60m flash on the a7r, i leave the evf in "setting effect ON" mode, because the flash tells the camera how much light it's putting out, and the evf compensates for that.

with sony/f60m i also have full hss capability with manual flash power settings, which i could never do with my pentax flash system.

hope this helps, please keep us posted on how it goes.
Perhaps I can help a bit by clarifying a studio flash scenario in which it would be appropriate to turn settings effects off.

If you are working with studio flashes that require use of a flash meter to set exposure, the flashes are not controlled by a dedicated function comparable to on-camera flashes. You use your camera in manual mode.

Let's say that the flash meter gives you an exposure of 1/125 at f/11, so you set that on your camera manually. No problem. You'll get correct flash exposure.

However, studio flash modelling lights are much dimmer than the flash output. In this scenario the camera is metering the modelling lights, not the flash output. We'll guess that the correct exposure for the modelling lights might be 1/8 second at f/11.

On an A7 camera in manual mode with settings effects on, the camera will think that the image is going to be underexposed (1/125 shutter speed set manually versus what the in-camera meter thinks is correct exposure, which is the 1/8 second shutter speed dictated by modelling lights.) The settings effects function will act accordingly and darken the viewfinder to indicate underexposure. Hence the dark viewfinder some of you have complained about.

If you shut off settings effects in this situation, the viewfinder will remain bright regardless of the discrepancy between modelling light brightness and flash output. Problem solved.

It might be more useful to inquire about studio flash use on an appropriate Sony forum than to complain about it on this one.
04-05-2015, 01:14 PM - 1 Like   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeodial Quote
Now that the FF is coming for many of us its places a couple of decisions.


  1. To go Full Frame or remain where we are with APSC or whatever combination of gear we currently have or
  2. Review some of the alternatives out there, Nikon/Canon/Sony et al


For myself, I am heavily invested in Pentax glass, but if there was a better way to leverage it, I could move to another body if there was enough benefit it doing so. If the new FF is close to the Nikon D810 in price, I would hope the performance and features will also be in that class.
Getting back to the original topic, I would say that there are many alternatives to full frame, Pentax or not.

I'm speaking as an experienced professional FF user. My first FF camera was a Kodak DCS Pro 14n that I used extensively for several years before retiring from my professional job. A major part of my career (20 years worth) was production of large images for museum exhibits as well as a great deal of work for magazines and books. I also did a lot of technical work, mainly artifact photography.

After retiring I worked with a K20 for quite a while, then moved on to an A7r about a year ago.

With the K20 I made many images that I consider suitable for printing up to 2x3 feet. I am picky about sharpness and detail, which are essential in the type of landscape work I do. The prints sell well in galleries.

Most current interchangeable lens cameras, whether micro 4/3, APS-C, or FF are better than the K20.

With the higher dynamic range and resolution of the A7r, I find it substantially easier to produce large prints. K20 files require careful sharpening for 2x3 foot prints and are challenging in terms of tonal range. They also require more noise processing. A7r files require minor, simple sharpening for that size, and are much easier to deal with in terms of tones.

However, from my perspective the difference between the files from the two cameras is incremental rather than life-changing. A lot of that difference can be covered up through proper technique and processing.

I recently made a presentation to a local photo club in which I displayed two 2x3 foot prints, one from the K20 and one from the A7r. The A7r print had better detail, but the K20 print looked perfectly respectable in side-by-side comparison. People did not get excited about the difference between the two.

Given that most current cameras are better than the K20, there is nothing to stop people producing excellent results with formats other than FF. I see a lot of arguing about DOF issues, but really: things that are negative in the eyes of some users are positive in the eyes of just as many.

My observation is that for most individuals the limiting factor is skill rather than equipment.

My reasons for going FF included factors such as having a bunch of really good vintage lenses that won't adapt to K-mount, and the fact that I am an old geezer being self-indulgent using lenses as they were designed,

As I've said elsewhere, starting from scratch I would happily work with a K-3 and some good lenses for general photography.

I will point out that if I were wearing my technical photographer hat, there are some situations in which I would go for higher resolution than is now available for APS-C and smaller formats. Those are pretty specialized cases, however.

Last edited by John Poirier; 04-05-2015 at 06:43 PM. Reason: clarity
04-10-2015, 11:52 AM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by LFLee Quote
LOL at the guy who said FF will be at D810 price.

no way.
If you think it will be THAT much cheaper, you are dreaming As mentioned many times before. This first FF and the new lineup of lenses, are primarily targeted at pros..That will also reflect in both quality and price. BUT you will still get more for your money with Pentax, then you will get other places...
04-11-2015, 09:52 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
If you think it will be THAT much cheaper, you are dreaming As mentioned many times before. This first FF and the new lineup of lenses, are primarily targeted at pros..That will also reflect in both quality and price. BUT you will still get more for your money with Pentax, then you will get other places...
It 'used to be' that Pentax lenses were cheaper than the competition and the cameras were slightly more expensive. Now it seems like the lenses are expensive and the cameras are cheaper.

Fine by me of course.
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