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04-10-2015, 10:40 AM   #1
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What will the crop mode be like on the FF?

Could someone explain to me how crop mode is going to/might work on the new FF?

My understanding is on some other cameras the crop mode results in a very reduced (e.g. 5MP) image, so the idea of getting a K3 and a FF in the same camera is limited. I realize this technical question may not yet be answered, but thought I might solicit some intelligent input based on the crop modes from other system Pentax may emulate. I will consider selling my K3 if the crop mode is good enough to replace my K3 for my two DA lenses.


Also would the DA converter work effectively in this mode? I assume so.

04-10-2015, 10:44 AM   #2
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Count on the sensor being 36 MP and the crop med being approximately a K-5, not a K-3. I'm pretty sure the HD DA 1.4 TC will cover the FF area so it should be good for both. If I end up with both, (very unlikely because of cost) it'll be K-3 for wildlife K-DFF for landscape.

Last edited by normhead; 04-10-2015 at 11:51 AM.
04-10-2015, 11:03 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Count on the sensor being 36 MP and the crop med being approximately a K-5, not a K-3. I'm pretty sure the HD DA 1.4 TC will cover the FF area so should be good for both.If I end up with both, (very unlikely because of cost) it's be K-3 for wildlife K-DFF for landscape.

Hmm. Was afraid of that. I really like the K3 for macro, in particular flowers, and a little wildlife I do with my DA 60-250D. So also might have to keep the K3 if my budget permits.
04-10-2015, 11:29 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeodial Quote
My understanding is on some other cameras the crop mode results in a very reduced (e.g. 5MP) image,
What camera is that? The D810 for example offers two crop modes: 1.5x which provides approximately a 16mp picture (k-5 size) and a 1.2x crop which provides approximately a 24mp picture (k-3 size). I'm not that familiar with Nikon so I don't know how easy it is to switch or when you would use one mode or the other.

But on Pentax, implementing such a feature would allow you to shoot at k-5 mp or k-3 mp or FF. (16mp, 24mp or 36mp). That assumes they use the 36mp sensor and implement 'crop mode' by allowing you to pick what you want rather than arbitrarily selecting a mode based on the lens mounted.

This is the way I would want to see it done because it allows your true APS-C lenses to work fine at 1.5x crop, the DA lenses that sort of work on full frame to be used at 1.2x crop and true FF lenses to be used fully.

I hope this is completely selectable as I have no problem with vignetting, I am happy to crop in post and get the most pixels possible with a given lens.

---------- Post added 04-10-15 at 11:30 AM ----------

And I am sure the TC is FF compatible, I believe that was in the initial press release from Ricoh.

04-10-2015, 11:45 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
What camera is that? The D810 for example offers two crop modes: 1.5x which provides approximately a 16mp picture (k-5 size) and a 1.2x crop which provides approximately a 24mp picture (k-3 size). I'm not that familiar with Nikon so I don't know how easy it is to switch or when you would use one mode or the other.

But on Pentax, implementing such a feature would allow you to shoot at k-5 mp or k-3 mp or FF. (16mp, 24mp or 36mp). That assumes they use the 36mp sensor and implement 'crop mode' by allowing you to pick what you want rather than arbitrarily selecting a mode based on the lens mounted.

This is the way I would want to see it done because it allows your true APS-C lenses to work fine at 1.5x crop, the DA lenses that sort of work on full frame to be used at 1.2x crop and true FF lenses to be used fully.

I hope this is completely selectable as I have no problem with vignetting, I am happy to crop in post and get the most pixels possible with a given lens.

---------- Post added 04-10-15 at 11:30 AM ----------

And I am sure the TC is FF compatible, I believe that was in the initial press release from Ricoh.

That would be ideal.
04-10-2015, 11:52 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeodial Quote
Could someone explain to me how crop mode is going to/might work on the new FF?
It will be wonderful! At least that is how the vapor-spec reads.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Count on the sensor being 36 MP and the crop med being approximately a K-5, not a K-3.
Yep, on the D810 (the assumed market target), the DX crop mode is a straight crop of the sensor resulting in 15.4 megapickles (4800x3200 per Nikon).


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04-10-2015, 12:20 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I'm not that familiar with Nikon so I don't know how easy it is to switch or when you would use one mode or the other.
My understanding is that the most common usage is to assign a custom button function. The biggest beef, based on my reading, is that the projected frame lines on that camera are hard to see in dim light.


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04-10-2015, 02:00 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
The biggest beef, based on my reading, is that the projected frame lines on that camera are hard to see in dim light.
I had not even thought of that. But yes that would be an important issue. I usually do not pay much attention to the framing, just "fill the frame" but I just ran into an issue with that. One I feel a little embarrassed about but as I am setting up images for sale I realized that the image they see on the website is a 4x6 but I am printing 8x10 and so what they see is NOT what they get. I re-did a couple hundred images last night cropping to 8x10 and I was very disappointed in some of the results. I have learned to compose in 4x6 but if I'm printing in 4x5 that is a problem.

I either need to start framing more loosely or at least think about how an 8x10 will look cropped out of what I see in the viewfinder. A good display in the viewfinder showing the aspect ratios might be useful. Do any cameras already do that?

04-10-2015, 02:43 PM - 1 Like   #9
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How tiny are your flowers that you won't be able to frame an image the way you want on a FF with your DFA 100mm?

No doubt some might prefer higher pixel density (assuming we believe the speculated 36mp) , but keep in mind if 'aps-c mode' is down to near 16mp this is in the 'lowly' k5/k5ii/k5iis range - camera line that didn't exactly disappoint over the years. How often would 16mp vs 24mp on aps-c break your photos? Maybe always, maybe seldom, for me personally pretty much never (ymmv).

QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
One I feel a little embarrassed about but as I am setting up images for sale I realized that the image they see on the website is a 4x6 but I am printing 8x10 and so what they see is NOT what they get. I re-did a couple hundred images last night cropping to 8x10 and I was very disappointed in some of the results. I have learned to compose in 4x6 but if I'm printing in 4x5 that is a problem.
Any reason not to print at 8x12? It fits nicely into a 12x16 mat, which seems to be a pretty common frame size these days.
04-10-2015, 02:51 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
Any reason not to print at 8x12? It fits nicely into a 12x16 mat, which seems to be a pretty common frame size these days.
I did price out 8x12 mats, as well as paper and the cost was significantly higher and selection much lower. But, yes that is an option. I'm just getting things set up and I was trying to avoid another complication. But maybe I should re-think.
04-10-2015, 07:19 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeodial Quote
Also would the DA converter work effectively in this mode? I assume so.
I'm pretty sure that the DA 1.4x TC can also be used to covert APS-C lenses to (almost) FF image circle, so you can use the full FF sensor (and OVF) on APS-C lenses that are compatible with the TC.

So the TC might be a better alternative than using crop mode (depending on how well the TC performs) and which lens it's used on. If the lens is slower than f/4 you might loose AF with the TC.
04-10-2015, 07:28 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
I'm pretty sure that the DA 1.4x TC can also be used to covert APS-C lenses to (almost) FF image circle, so you can use the full FF sensor (and OVF) on APS-C lenses that are compatible with the TC.

So the TC might be a better alternative than using crop mode (depending on how well the TC performs) and which lens it's used on. If the lens is slower than f/4 you might loose AF with the TC.

That sounds interesting.
04-10-2015, 07:33 PM   #13
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No choice with the Sony A7 other than on or off, essentially. Most pixels are thrown away.
04-10-2015, 09:35 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Most pixels are thrown away.
Goodbye little pixels :'(


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04-13-2015, 11:07 AM - 1 Like   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
A good display in the viewfinder showing the aspect ratios might be useful. Do any cameras already do that?
The Nikon D810 (and maybe others) does give you the option of a 5:4 crop, which is shown in the viewfinder overlay as a dark mask I believe. I think there are some mirrorless and compact models that do it too (eg LX100) - of course it's easier to show the crop frame with an EVF.

I think multiple aspect ratios would be very useful too, and have been arguing for it in other threads for a while, with not much interest and a lot of opposition. Your example is just one of many possible uses for such a system. My argument is that since Pentax will have no choice but to show the APS-C crop (and permanent marks on the focusing screen are less than ideal), why not go the whole hog and give us the option of a number of different ratios? They are desperate to find something which separates their FF from the competition - this could be one thing, before somebody else does it.
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