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05-11-2015, 02:16 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
Or buy the K-50 for $326, turn off the LCD and set the little lever on the left side of the lens mount to MF. This feature is built into every Pentax DSLR.
I didn't know the K-50 was an FF format camera? Silly me...

05-11-2015, 03:03 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
and boy does the photography differ from fully automatic shooting. It forces the user to take much more care in each and every picture. I need to do that to "reset" every once in a while.
The camera doesn't force anybody to do anything, unless you have got in the habit of pointing the camera in vaguely the direction of what you want to snap and then spray and pray why should you not take the same care over framing and exposure as was needed in the film days? BTW I learnt my skills on a Zenit
05-11-2015, 03:28 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by weijen Quote
I would love a manual focus DSLR with a proper aperture sensor, and a split focus screen with a nice, huge prism.

Forget all those funky exposure and metering modes. All I need is the shutter speed dial, and an A mode. Oh, and I can also live without the LCD screen.
Nice. How much are you willing to pay for it? $5000? $7500? Because niche products are more expensive, even if they have fewer features.

The alternative is to buy a competitively-priced FF DSLR (Pentax will have one this autumn), and selectively use whatever features you want. You would lose a bit viewfinder-side, though.

januko: because of this:
File:Flickr pentax K5 2 (CC-BY-SA).jpg - Wikimedia Commons
It's a K-5, but still you can see how the components are densely packed (film SLRs have only a back with a film pressure plate). Pentax might be able to do a bit better - though this goes against e.g. adding a more powerful processor and more RAM/buffer, as well as scaling up some components to FF size. And adding an articulated LCD.
05-11-2015, 05:02 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
Or buy the K-50 for $326, turn off the LCD and set the little lever on the left side of the lens mount to MF. This feature is built into every Pentax DSLR.
The K-50 isn't full-frame, its K-mount is crippled, and it doesn't have a split-prism and microprism focuser. (And now KatzEye Optics is out of business, dammit.)

05-11-2015, 05:03 AM - 1 Like   #20
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Why stop at manual focus?

Why not manual metering (ie no in-camera exposure metering), and manual digital frame advance too (via a crank handle)? And manual digital processing - the camera only shoots RAW, and in a special RAW format that even omits the small embedded preview JPEG, so you can only see what you've shot once you get the camera home, remove the SD card, and open the card in custom camera software on your PC.

Or just use old film cameras.
05-11-2015, 05:26 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by mohb Quote
The camera doesn't force anybody to do anything, unless you have got in the habit of pointing the camera in vaguely the direction of what you want to snap and then spray and pray why should you not take the same care over framing and exposure as was needed in the film days? BTW I learnt my skills on a Zenit
It doesn't allow the user to completely trust on its electronics. Doing that will result in complete garbage. So yes, it does literally force the user to take more time for each picture.

I'm never done learning, so the I learnt my skills on all the gear I've ever owned and will ever own.
05-11-2015, 05:49 AM   #22
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It could be pretty cheap - pull out all the fancy auto stuff to save on parts costs BUT include a built-in-flash and Pentax users dissatisfied with flash-free models will flock to it and it will sell in untold quantities.
05-11-2015, 06:02 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
Or buy the K-50 for $326, turn off the LCD and set the little lever on the left side of the lens mount to MF. This feature is built into every Pentax DSLR.
Similar but not the same?

FWIW, I already shoot much like you suggest, much of the time. I own far more MF than AF lenses. And very frequently
use AF lenses in MF mode.

For the LCD, I typically use 'Display Off' and 1 second preview. I virtually never use LiveView. However, I do make
extensive use of playback to review the images as I take them to check for exposure, focus and composition.

When you say 'turn off the LCD', do you mean no LiveView, or no LCD use at all? If the latter, I suppose the suggestion
would be to set the menu options before leaving the house, then be disciplined to not access the LCD for anything while
out shooting. That certainly would approximate the experience of shooting with film, at least the experience of not knowing
for certain that you got the shot until you got back home and downloaded the images.

And yet, it still wouldn't feel like shooting a fully mechanical camera, built to a standard and robustness that doesn't quite
exist anymore. It's not about the hardship of stepping back in time to an older technology. I have no desire to
give up the conveniences of the digital age, particularly the awesome power of instant review and the ease of software
based post processing. I simply have a desire to shoot a camera that 'feels' like an MX or Spotmatic, >WITH< as many of
the conveniences of the digital age as possible. Yes, I can load a roll of film in my MX and get that MX experience, but
for me at least, that is not the point. I haven't shot a roll of film in nearly ten years. I have yet to develop a nostalgia
for the process of film. I do, however, have a nostalgia for the gear and would love to see more products that can bring
that old gear into the digital age.

05-11-2015, 06:03 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
It could be pretty cheap - pull out all the fancy auto stuff to save on parts costs BUT include a built-in-flash and Pentax users dissatisfied with flash-free models will flock to it and it will sell in untold quantities.
Forums like this may be populated by anti fancy auto stuff photographers but how many of them are there in the real world?
05-11-2015, 07:27 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Why stop at manual focus?

Why not manual metering (ie no in-camera exposure metering), and manual digital frame advance too (via a crank handle)? And manual digital processing - the camera only shoots RAW, and in a special RAW format that even omits the small embedded preview JPEG, so you can only see what you've shot once you get the camera home, remove the SD card, and open the card in custom camera software on your PC.

Or just use old film cameras.

Yes please! You're close to describing my ideal digital camera. Maybe centre-weighted match-needle metering would be useful sometimes, although I'm happy to do without a built-in meter since I usually incident meter. A frame advance lever to manually cock the shutter would be extremely cool, with a grip/motor drive accessory for those who want auto frame advance. And if the camera only shot raw with a fixed daylight white balance there would be no need for an LCD screen at all. We could just have an aperture ring, shutter speed dial and ISO dial like on a K1000. Of course it'll never happen, although Leica has recently produced exactly such a special edition.

As for using old film cameras: that's what I do about half the time. And every time I go back to my DSLR I hate all the barriers it seems to put between me and the photos I want to take.
05-11-2015, 07:49 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dartmoor Dave Quote
Yes please! You're close to describing my ideal digital camera. Maybe centre-weighted match-needle metering would be useful sometimes, although I'm happy to do without a built-in meter since I usually incident meter. A frame advance lever to manually cock the shutter would be extremely cool, with a grip/motor drive accessory for those who want auto frame advance. And if the camera only shot raw with a fixed daylight white balance there would be no need for an LCD screen at all. We could just have an aperture ring, shutter speed dial and ISO dial like on a K1000. Of course it'll never happen, although Leica has recently produced exactly such a special edition.

As for using old film cameras: that's what I do about half the time. And every time I go back to my DSLR I hate all the barriers it seems to put between me and the photos I want to take.
Being completely oblivious to engineering, I sometimes wonder if a digital back/insert for the K1000 would be possible nowadays. And if it would be affordable at all. For me it would be the coolest aftermarket accessory ever.
05-11-2015, 08:40 AM   #27
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Maybe one of the Chinese companies like Seagull will turn one out. The were knocking out a beginners SLR (film) for Minolta SR (MC/MD) mount for awhile.

Then there was the announcement for a MF DSLR from Seagull for Minolta SR mount. Click on the link of the referenced page to see the status of the camera:

Rokkor Files - Digital Options
05-11-2015, 08:47 AM   #28
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If I am going to pay what a FF DSLR will cost then I want features. If you don't like them it is easy to not use them or turn them off.
05-11-2015, 09:16 AM   #29
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I want all the features I would use, and then all the features which will make the camera more affordable.
05-11-2015, 09:28 AM   #30
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I would be happy with a manual focus full-frame mirrorless and some lenses with depth of field scales.
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